Talk:Má vlast

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Contents 1 Czechia 2 Capitalisation 3 musical quotes 4 My Country 5 A bit on recordings 6 Deafness 7 Image

[edit] Czechia

Somebody changed "Bohemia" in this article to "Czechia". To be quite honest, I don't know which one is more correct, but I don't think we should use "Czechia" in the article because it's completely unfamiliar to English speakers - when I saw it, I assumed it was some state which later became a part of the Czech Republic (or perhaps rather Czechoslovakia) rather than a synonym for it, which it seems to be. If "Czechoslovakia" is correct, then lets say that, not "Czechia".

As I say, I'm really not sure what is correct - I've changed it back to Bohemia, partly to get rid of the unfamilar "Czechia" and partly because as far as I know Bohemia was the state in existence at that time, but then we describe Smetana as a "Czech" composer, so I don't know. --Camembert

Ugh, none of that makes sense - the basic point I'm making is this: I don't know what I'm talking about, but whatever we say it shouldn't be "Czechia", because it means nothing to most people (I am asuming that "Czechia" doesn't have some specific meaning that isn't covered by "Czechoslovakia" or "Czech Republic"). --Camembert

"Czechia" is correct. It means the Czech Lands or Czech state, then Bohemia, Moravia and partly Silesia together, now the Czech Rebublic, which is the political name of that country only since 1993, when Czechoslovakia (Czechia+Slovakia) dissolved. "Czechia" is the similar case as "Germany". There are Bavaria, Saxony e.c., but the whole area, the whole nation, is generally known as Germany. Czechia exists since 9th century. I thing Bohemia in this article isn't wrong, but if it refers to the whole country, then Czechia would be better. I strongly recommend two articles about "Czechia" here: Czech Republic

OK, I think I was misunderstanding - the impression that I got from the Czech Republic article - particularly the sentence "The Czech Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1993 announced that the name Czechia is to be used in all situations other than formal official documents and the full names of government institutions" - was that "Czechia" was purely a modern name. I think the Czech Republic article could be a bit clearer in this regard. So OK, I'll change the present article back to "Czechia", since you clearly know what you're talking about :) --Camembert

"Czechia" is modern because of lack of opportunities to use it before 1993. There were "Austria-Hungary", then "Czechoslovakia" and the Czech geopolitical entity, "Czechia" ("Česko" in Czech), was simply overshadowed by them. Other thing is, that Bohemia usually served as the synonym for Czechia (like Holland-the Netherlands).

Yes, but Czechia is a special case. The word Czech is derived from the Czech word Čechy, which means Bohemia. Thus, Czech Republic essentially means Bohemian Republic, although the Czech Republic refers to more than just Bohemia. This has created some complicated problems among linguists, politicians, etc., as to how it should properly be treated. In the mean time, the Czech Republic has made a point of trying to promote the name Czechia to English speakers, as it is common to have a short name for a country; one rarely says the "Federal Republic of Germany," for example, or the "Kingdom of the Netherlands." In this case, however, Smetana was referring to his native land, Bohemia (which, as I mentioned, is Čechy in the Czech language). At that point in time, Bohemia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and other than that was completely separate from Silesia and Moravia. -- Phil Bastian 20:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong. Bohemia, Silesia and Moravia form one common state (kingdom) since 11th century and were never been separated since then. This kingdom was called The Lands of the Czech Crown or Czech kingdom, under Austrian Empire rule as well. Moreover, Smetana was born in Litomyšl, city in the Bohemian-Moravian "borderland".

[edit] Capitalisation

In Czech language the word "vlast" is not capitalized (see e.g. [1] - English tranlsation is "My Country", Czech "Má vlast"). I removed the tag asking to move it to "Má Vlast". Perhaps if the name got partially englicised. Pavel Vozenilek 20:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] musical quotes

A fine set of musical quotes as jpegs and midi files are available on the corresponding French page. I've copied only the most important example; anyone with time to do the rest is most welcome. Also given are durations of the numbers. Coughinink 03:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Country

I don't think the translation to "My Country" here is appropriate. In Czech, the word country is translated Stát. I am not an expert on Czech, but in German (which, while not a Slavic language has definite cultural ties that influence language) the word Vaterland has a special meaning which is different from that of the word country. It tends to be more romantic, patriotic, etc. One would never refer to a foreign fatherland, for instance. It evokes a certain passion which is not present in the word country. I imagine that Smetana wanted to evoke this passion in the piece. -- Phil Bastian 20:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

No, in Czech country is translated země (or a lot of other things, depending on context; but stát simply means state - interwiki list is NOT a translating tool). Yup, the usual dictionary meaning of vlast is mother/fatherland (and it is perfectly possible to say "francouzští vojáci umírali za svou vlast - The French soldiers died for their $PARENTland"); however this in English sounds undesirably like German Vaterland and "my country" can be used by an English speaker where Czech would use vlast. Besides, My Country is an established English title. --Malyctenar 13:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Alright, point taken about the interwiki list. I should have done more research, but oh well. Even so, you seem to agree that vlast does not directly translate as country, which was my point. That said, I was listening to Má vlast just last night and found to my dismay that my CD had translated it as My Country, so I can't deny that it is a translation in use, even if it is a degradation of the actual sentiment expressed by the title. I never understood why Hugo's Notre Dame de Paris had to be translated as The Hunchback of Notre Dame, but I guess the world has accepted a culture of less-than-ideal translations. Bother. Phil Bastian 12:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A bit on recordings

I think it'd be prudent to note that in recordings, Vltava is almost exclusively the only one that gets presented seperately (I've seen a couple with Vyšehrad or Z českých luhů a hájů, but none of the other three), and there are many recordings of the complete cycle. I can't figure out a good way to word it, or where it would go, though. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deafness

I edited the wording on the 'High Castle' section about Smetana's composing deaf. The piano manuscripts for the first movement were composed between 1872 and 1874. Smetana did not begin to noticeably lose hearing until the summer of 1874 and was completely deaf by the end of October. This means that the first movement was the only one to be (mostly) composed while he could still hear reasonably well. Vltava was also partially complete by the time that Smetana began to lose hearing. None of the symphonic poems were published until he was deaf (between 1880 and 1894). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.126.117.76 (talk) 00:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Image

That picture of the score of 'Vltava' is wrong. The image shows the piece in G major, whereas the piece is in fact in E minor; furthermore, there are some inaccurate representations of rhythm. I recommend the image be either edited or removed. 141.157.81.43 20:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The climax of the piece is in G major, by the way. 70.60.41.50 17:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The score is missing some legatos and accents, but notewise it matches the first violin part in the external link at the bottom of the page starting at measure 39. E minor and G major have the same signature (one sharp). The melody is based on E signifying which of the two it is. I suppose it wouldn't hurt if someone were to redraw that passage with all the legato and accents inserted, but otherwise its not incorrect. DavidRF 17:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)