Talk:Lyric poetry

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Lyric poetry is part of WikiProject Poetry, a WikiProject related to Poetry.
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I removed the word "purest," which is subjective and vague, from the first sentence (originally, Lyric poetry is the purest form of poetry. . .). This leaves the genre with a negative definition, which may strike some as unfortunate, but technically speaking it's accurate--lyric has historically been defined as that genre which is neither epic nor drama. — Chick Bowen 04:48, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Most lyric poems are short and are often personal. It stresses moments of feeling. Lyric poetry is a highly musical verse that tells the observations or feelings of a speaker. --216.166.216.3 22:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Why are Canadian poets listed separately, but American ones (Plath) are lumped in with English? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have English-language poets all together?Hopsyturvy 16:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] you might want too add something about where epic potry was performed, adnd when it was performed

sorry guys i don't know where else to post this but someone keeps messing up this page and its getting hard to tell whats right. If i bomb my poetry project im gonna kill that guy!

[edit] Too long

I think the list doesn't really fit the title of "Lyric Poetry" and should be on a page of its own. Kaw in stl 15:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

A number of the poets listed may have written lyric poetry, but are not particularly associated with it. The English language poet lists particularly need to be trimmed. I suggest the following should go: Rudyard Kipling, Edgar Allan Poe, Alfred, Lord Tennyson,Robert Browning, T. S. Eliot and A. E. Housman.--Ethicoaestheticist 12:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I've trimmed the lists, removing poets who have been misplaced. I think that the modernist and imagist poets should also be removed from the list of twentieth century poets. These poets were often acting in opposition to lyric poetry, with it's easy rhythms and emphasis on personal feeling. The ones which ought to be cut are: Hart Crane, T. S. Eliot, Archibald MacLeish, Marianne Moore, Ezra Pound and William Carlos Williams. Other poets to be included, once the list has been reduced a bit: Rupert Brooke, Isaac Rosenberg.--Ethicoaestheticist 15:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

All it says is "it is music"

[edit] Serious problems here

Though this is without doubt an important subject, it's not really well represented by this article. First of all, there are no references cited, which is essential with a key topic like this one. But more importantly, there's no form to the article; some terms are defined from a very anglo-centric point of view, others include world examples, some periods are represented in prose, some with a list. This needs a complete overhaul. Chick Bowen 06:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm responsible for the some periods in prose, some in lists. The article used to consist of long lists, which I first tidied up and then started to replace with prose. My intention was to eventually remove all the lists. I'll see if I can add some references.--Ethicoaestheticist 17:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Great--it's already improved. A couple of suggestions: perhaps we should consider dispensing with the "Themes" section, as it seems impossible to write it in such a way as to cover all of the periods, locations, and styles covered below it. Similarly, the lead sounds to me like a description of modern English-language lyric. Perhaps something much briefer, such as "Lyric poetry" is a poetic genre frequently opposed to epic and dramatic poetry, characterized by relative brevity and a subjective rather than narrative approach"? Even better would be a definition that could be directly tied to a source. Chick Bowen 01:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


May I make a plea for the inclusion of this last definition, in preference to the one that's up there now, as it is less restrictive in its use of the definitions. For example, I am linking to this in order to define the use of 'lyrical' to describe a non-dramatic element within an experimental dramatic form, and contrasting it too with 'narrative' or 'epic' elements. In that light, the definition given above is more useful and inclusive. Thanks, DionysosProteus 16:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
How about keeping the referenced definition, and developing the second sentence? A source could be easily found - for instance from the The Oxford Companion to the English Language, from which I took the definition in the first sentence: "The term ... is used of almost any poem that is not clearly narrative, dramatic, or satirical." (I know, doesn't make the point very forcefully which is why I left it out). It's from the same page as the definition in the article if you want to use it - better still would be to find another source to add some variety! Or, even, a section on the use of lyric in drama? Be bold.--Ethicoaestheticist 00:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The referencing, yes, of course. Quite new so still have to keep reminding myself. I agree that the phrase left out doesn't quite do the trick. What's being alluded to here, I believe is the passage from classical poetics into modern aesthetics. That is, lyric as type into lyrical as term, just as drama became dramatic (and able to describe formal rather than merely content elements in novels). The theatre articles, particularly the poetics-orientated ones, are in a rough shape, so, as ever on here, your invitation to change it myself (quite rightly made too) I have to decline, for the time being that is. They may be too idiosyncratic for such a general aesthetics article, but I seem to remember either both or one of Szondi and Bürger develop these ideas, away from their embodiment in any medium in particular. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it'll be a little while until I see about it. Any noises in that direction & maybe I can collaborate in some form. Thanks, DionysosProteus 03:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 21st century

I've removed the list of 21st century lyric poets. I think it's safe to say that this early in the century this list serves little purpose.--Ethicoaestheticist 17:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Messy changes

There were some messy changes made to the article, which I've removed - please watch out for those format buttons. Also, this sentence:

  • Sonnet Mondal is a poet of India whose most of the poems are lyrical. There is no particular pattern but a typical sweet melody in his poems.

It was inserted at the end of a paragraph to which it clearly didn't belong. It also needs a citation. Is there a better place in the article for it? DionysosProteus 11:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

This needs to be protected. It's the second time I've reverted vandalism on this page. --Gp75motorsports REV LIMITER 23:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

You missed a bit... Someone sure got it in for the lyric.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

You definately need examples on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.211.166.62 (talk) 20:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Examples/Clarification in Century headings

Maybe when I have some time, I'll come back and propose some specific edits, rather than just throw out suggestions, but for now this will have to do.

In addition to providing some examples, it would be good to provide clarification in the century headings. It is confusing right now because, particularly in the 20th century, there is a big list of people who tried to bring their poetry away from lyric verse, and there doesn't seem to be any order or goal here. The style is more conversational, more random, than an encyclopedic entry should be.

Maybe they can still be divided by century, but then sub-divided by an overview (i.e., "In the 20th century, lyric poetry saw a decline and many major poets moved away from it, particularly in the aftermath of WWI."), a description of those poets who moved away from it (i.e. "T.S. Eliot was a pioneer of the Modernist movement in poetry, whose work is a classic example of how early 20th century poets tried to break out of the limitations of lyrical verse."), and finally a description of those poets who maintained lyrical poetry in the 20th century.

20TH CENTURY

  • Overview
  • Detractors
  • Supporters

Just trying to help, so critique away! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Macduffman (talk • contribs) 13:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I've added a summary for the 20th C as an overview, and chronological subheadings that hopefully make the tensions more apparent. Feel free to toy with it! I agree that individual poets such as Eliot, and indeed Yeats, could be explored in more detail as representative of some of the wider issues.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 19:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)