Talk:Lviv Oblast

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[edit] Name in foreign languages

I'm not sure if names in foreign languages are relevent in an article about an administrative region of Ukraine. They're usefull in an article about the city which has a rich history and was home to two nations but placing those names here seems strange. (unsigned by anon)

I agree that names for the places and for administrative regions are different things. The modern Ukrainian administrative unit of Lviv Oblast has little to do with Poland unlike the Galicia historic area or the city of Lwow. However, I tried to argue this point with Romanians at Chernivtsi Oblast unsuccessfully. For the sake of consistensy, we should decide the issue in general and develop a universal rule, rather than arhue about each individual article. --Irpen 19:08, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Kuban kazak, AndriyK, Yakudza, please read the above and lets agree on the issue! If we decide that foreign names don't belong to administrative divisions, don't forget the Romanian language name from Chernivtsi Oblast. --Irpen 00:11, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Well in case of Crimea, and many eastern regions have multiple languages in the heading, why should Lvov be unique? Besides there is history already in the article, so it does not serve a purely geographical purpose...Kuban kazak 00:22, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Crimea is unique because being an Autonomous republic it has its own constitution in additional to a Ukrainian one. In the local constitution Russian and Tatar language are specifically mentioned and, as such, the case of Crimea is different. As for historic regions (Galicia, Bukovyna, Sloboda Ukraine, Novorossiya, etc) and historic towns (most towns in UA) with shared history, many names are relevant in addition to a Ukrainian one. As for moder administrative division, it is less clear what Poland has to do to Lviv Oblast. I suggest we stop changing that and decide on the issue first in general. Deletion of a Romanian name from Chernivtsi Oblast encountered objections from Romanian editors, despite Romanian name is already in both Chernivtsi and Bukovina articles. --Irpen 01:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I thought more of it. Russian name Lvov Oblast was indeed used for the area for a rather long time. In fact the borders of modern Ukrainian administrative unit of Lviv Oblast coinside with the oblast's borders within the USSR. So, maybe retaining the Russian name is worthy. OTOH, the oblast subdivision has little to do with the time when the territory was under Poland or Austria (the Polish voivodship territory or Austrian Galician province territory were drawn from completely different considerations). We have Galicia and Lviv and Lwów Voivodship historic articles where those names are or should be listed. I don't know what were administrative divisions of Rumania, but I also think it is unlikely to have anything to do with Chernivtsi Oblast, while it propably had something to do with Bukovyna. What do you, guys, think. --Irpen 19:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I doubt in Soviet times it was written "Lvov Oblast" in English. I would rather expect "Lvov Province" translation. mikka (t) 20:53, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

It is a separate, though related issue. Whether to use Oblast or province for the Sovitet/post-Soviet administrative subdivision is a matter of style. For whatever reason we decided on using oblast and raion in WP (perhaps because we have reasonably good term articles). The issue is whether to have non-Ukrainian names for the oblasts in Ukraine is right, and if so, which names should be used for which oblasts, see above. --Irpen 21:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Let's not waste any more time discussing "Lvov Oblast". If that's not the correct English-from-Soviet-Russian name, then please correct it; otherwise leave it in. AndriyK, leaving it in the article supports your de-russification effort by pointing out to people that the status quo has changed from the bad old Soviet Empire days; removing it just causes confusion. —Michael Z. 2005-11-8 07:03 Z
I've taken your comment into account. Please have a look.--AndriyK 08:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Don't take sarcastic comments literally, Lvov and Lviv O are both former and contemporary, just in different languages. This needs uniformly decided before playing games. Try talking to Romanians into agreeing to remove their name from Chernivsti Oblast if you are so eager to remove non-Ukrainian names from Oblast articles. --Irpen 08:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

"Lviv Oblast" and "Lvov Oblast" are different spellings in the same language. In the case you have forgotten your mother language, this is spelled as "Львовская область" in Russian, which has nothing to do to English Wikipedia.
А на румын лучше тебя выпустить. ;)--AndriyK 09:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, to be more exact they are both "derived" from two languages, since Lviv Oblast isn't Ukrainian either. You don't know what you are talking about when speaking about arguing with some (not all of course) Romanian editors. If you want a taste of it, try editing Transnistria or Moldova. I want this consistent, and you just want non-ukrainian names out (especially the Russian ones). Or am I wrong? If not, go add Chernivtsi Oblast to your editing list. --Irpen 09:09, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

What I actually want... I want to write neutral and informative articles about Ukraine. But I do not want the people like you would list them then for renaming, or such people as Kuban Kazak would shit there (with your help, of cause) with their Orthodox fundamentalizm.
I am not interested much in Moldova or Transnistria topics.--AndriyK 09:16, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Good! Everyone else have repeatedly told you that article you will write are very welcome. Time to start. --Irpen 09:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

And you told me that they will be listed for renaming.--AndriyK 09:22, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I said they might. So are my article up for renaming and terminology changes (Chernihiv). You renamed several other people's articles single-handily and even organized a vote fraud to keep them there. However, good articles will remain good articles. I renamed former "UOC" article into the History of Christianity in Ukraine, than myself and several others expanded it. We now have a not so bad article. Also, Michael and I renamed all Ukrainian city and Oblast articles at one time to make sure they conform the naming conventions. Nothing bad happened to them. --Irpen 09:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

You lie again. You said "be sure", not "they might".--AndriyK 09:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Replied at User_talk:AndriyK#Challenge --Irpen 02:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Guys, calm down. I do not see why would we need Polish or Russian name of the province here. BTW, use "Województwo Lwowskie" if you think it's a wictionary and need the Polish language version ;-) --Lysy (talk) 10:34, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Also technically the Oblast was not created in 1939 but much later, in 1945 its borders were augmented and in late 1950s it was merged with Drogobych oblast, here is my post from Subdivisions of Ukraine: Kuban kazak 12:08, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

It is useful, I think, for historical reasons, to include the Polish spelling, "Lvov."

--151.202.69.175 03:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry - I was thinking of the City, not the Oblast. 151.202.69.175 03:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drogobych and Izmail Oblasts; Moldavian ASSR

I have a few old atlases which say that in fact in the 1950's two more oblasts existed in UkSSR. From an excellent collection of topographical maps here is a 1940 atlas, which on Ukraine's map (don't worry its the site that has the permission) clearly shows the Drogobych Oblast and the Moldavian ASSR, as well as the original 1939 border. I have a few late 1940's atlases which show the Izmail oblast as well (basically the part of Odessa oblast that was annexed from Bessarabia in 1940). So how should we present this quite important information? Kuban kazak 00:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Let people witness what Wikipedia has degraded down to, for over 4 days this message hung in empty space and NOBODY seems to take notice about it. Andrusha this is serious, we are not going to let you go on a rampage editing articles that suit your personal tastes. If you are worthy of being here I challenge you to put the information in the paragraph above into the articles. (Please no one else take any effort). Try for a change to make an addition to an article instead of pointlessly and childishly arguing about naming. Слабо? Kuban kazak 00:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Was Lviv oblast renamed?

Dear Michael, you version look like Lviv oblast was renamed. Formerly it was "Lvov oblast" and now it "Lviv oblast", which is not true. "Lvov oblast" is just another spelling, which formerly was in use alon with "Lviv oblast". Could you please find a more exact formulation?--AndriyK 17:21, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I will do that in a minute. --Irpen 17:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Are you Michael's sockpuppet?--AndriyK 17:29, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

This is a serious accusation. Are you making it? --Irpen 17:34, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm just joking. I addressed Mickael in my posting, but you reacted as if you were him.--AndriyK 17:44, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I am as much entitled to edit this article as Michael. So don't revert my version just because it's not his. I am sure he doesn't mind. --Irpen 17:49, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


I merely corrected spelling and made the phrasing of your version more concise, Andriy; I didn't mean to change its sense. —Michael Z. 2005-11-8 17:51 Z

I mentioned it, you corrected my orthographic mistake. I appreciate it. Thank you.
But in fact the meaning was changed a bit. It looks like the region was renamed. Please compare: Luhansk Oblast (formerly Voroshilovgrad Oblast, also spelled as Lugansk Oblast).--AndriyK 17:55, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Linguistics for dummies

AndriyK, I don't see why my version is bad and its being mine is no reason to revert and wait for someone else instead. The logic of why the RU name is there is explained. There may be a flaw in the logic but the fact that it is my edit is not the flaw in itself, even if someone thinks otherwise. --Irpen 18:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

In fact, you explained nothing. Please read you version carefully. You make too many edits, you have to think a bit more.--AndriyK 18:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Read above under "I thought more of it" --Irpen 18:44, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

You have to think even more.--AndriyK 18:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I see, you do not like to think. So I have to explaine you obvious things.
"Lvov Oblast" comes from Russian spelling of the city name "Львов" and Russian word for "region" "область". The Russian word-combination "Львовская область" is irrelevant.--AndriyK 10:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] In that particular paragraph

The region and its capital city take their name from the time of Halych-Volynia, when Danylo, the King of Rus' founded Lvov, naming the city after his son, Lev (Leo).


I believe in that particular paragraph "Lvov" is appropriate, as it *is* the name which was given during foundation of the city.