Talk:Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

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To Archive 1|To Archive 2

Contents

[edit] Use of Logo

[edit] Official LCMS Statement Regarding Logo Use on Wikipedia

Finally!:

Please forgive me for taking so long to write back about placing the LCMS cross logo on our Wikipedia site. We have reviewed this request and the site and have determined that it would be fine at this time to include the logo on the site. We appreciate very much your request to do and appreciate you taking the time to get this done. Please let me know if you have any questions about this or if we can be of assistance in any other way.

Blessings on your day,
Vicki Biggs
Manager, Public Affairs & Media Relations
The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod
(314) 996-1236

That clears that up! --Dulcimerist 10:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Infallibillity vs Inerrancy

I've created a new page entitled: Biblical infallibility. It links to Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod at one point. The Lutheran church was at the center of this debate in the 70's and 80's and it would be great if any of oyu could help edit this page. Thanks! --DjSamwise 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


I will try to figure out a category to place this article under, and hope to have time to look it over and add to it. Perhaps additional people could help with this as well? Thanks! Dulcimerist 19:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LCMS Districts

This looks like a fun section to work on! I could build a decent Montana District page, as I talk a lot with the district archivist. What type of information are we looking for on the district pages? Thanks! --Dulcimerist 10:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

As I responded to your talk comment on the Montana article, getting into the history of the various districts would be useful at this point (as would photos of churches and district presidents). The main possibility is the creation of articles for individual churches (see Wikipedia:Notability (local churches and other religious congregations), a guideline being currently developed). I believe there are only 9 articles for LCMS churches so far, though there are at least 150 under Category:Roman Catholic churches in the United States. When I created the district articles, I made links for all the LCMS churches that are on the National Register of Historic Places (I think I got all of them), so those certainly qualify for articles. Particularly for old churches in small to medium-size towns, there may be significant coverage in local newspapers (particularly around notable anniversaries - 50th, 100th, etc.). Designation as a state or local landmark is a big help as well. I'd advise starting with the oldest and/or largest churches in each district or circuit; for any church, if there's another congregation in its circuit which is both older and larger, then that church should almost certainly have an article first. I know there's a bit of controversy in Wikipedia about articles for individual churches (Notre Dame de Paris is certainly deserving of an article, but I don't think articles for non-denominational storefront congregations with 20 members are advisable), so proceeding with the best possible approach is to everyone's advantage. MisfitToys 00:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! As to articles for individual churches, would these be pages placed under the district pages in the hierarchy structure? I've got good information on quite a few of the oldest churches in the Montana district. If a "dummy template" is available, I can get to work on those when I have time. --Dulcimerist 17:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mention Seminex here?

I think this article should mention the Seminex affair that happened under Preuss, either in the history or internal struggles sections. As it says in the Seminex article, this has had an impact on the main LCMS that still has effects today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.2.211.107 (talk) 17:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

This article used to contain a paragraph on Seminex and the AELC departures, as well as discussion of other post-1960s church disputes, in a subsection under "History" entitled "Consensus and Division." Portions or all of this could be reinserted to flesh out this issue. This old material can be viewed here for possible reuse. Ropcat (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Internal Struggles tags

I tagged the "internal struggles" page as lacking sources and lacking neutrality. If you click on the Archive 2 above and scroll down to the bottom you'll see that the issue was brought up before, but not addressed. Someone even advocated deleting the section. At the very least, the section needs to be rewritten so that it reflects sourced, verifiable assessments of the controversies, rather than somebody's personal perceptions. Fishal (talk) 15:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

If nobody objects, I'll just remove that section and archive it here; as it is it adds very little to the article. Fishal (talk) 19:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

An anonymous user, User:65.31.202.105, re-instated the material without a tag. I reverted it because I think it needs to be discussed and fixed before it gets put back in. Fishal (talk) 14:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted section

I just removed this from the article. I believe consensus supports this, since it was suggested before, not objected to, and suggested again last month without objection. Fishal (talk) 12:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Internal struggles

 This section does not cite any references or sources. (January 2008)
Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.(January 2008)
Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

While LCMS doctrine teaches that both the truths of scripture and mankind's need for forgiveness through Jesus are timeless and unchanging, members of the LCMS have varying views on how best to communicate God's love to people in a constantly changing human culture. Some hold that the church must adapt to the culture, while the more traditional or Confessional insist that it is the church's role to transform the culture itself through the means of grace: God's Word taught in all its truth and purity and the Sacraments administered as Christ instituted them.

The "political" divisions might be defined as "traditionalists" (who espouse a reverent approach to worship and holding to biblical and Confessional doctrine) and "progressives" (who embrace contextualized worship and/or mission outreach with a claimed conservative doctrine). Notable influences in the recent internal transformations of the LCMS include the progressive organizations: the official LCMS Ablaze! movement, Jesus First, Day Star, and Voices/Vision, Renewal in Missouri, the Pastoral Leadership Institute (PLI). Those organizations which espouse a more conservative, traditional, and Confessional view are: Pastor Herman Otten and Christian News, Reclaiming Walther, Consensus, and Confess and Teach for Unity.

Critics maintain that these movements are confusing and espouse opposing doctrines, and that distinctions are muddled as the historical Sola Scriptura of the Lutheran heritage is seemingly compromised. On the progressive side of the LCMS are influences from the megachurches of American evangelicalism (eg Bill Hybels's "Becoming a Contagious Christian" from Willow Creek and Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life" from Saddleback Church) have been embraced in many LCMS congregations even though some LCMS members believe that they are not in harmony with Lutheran theology.

At the same time, various changes in the culture cause some strain on the historical institutional structure of the LCMS. For example, the synod has seen funding move from unrestricted gifts from members to designated gifts restricted to particular uses. These funding changes have contributed to significant cuts in funding for a large fraction of the LCMS overseas missionaries in recent years. Some view such funding changes to be politically motivated due to lack of confidence in the Synodical administration's spending priorities though others see the changes to be an inevitable result of the way members have chosen to make contributions to the LCMS in recent years. A combination of the two causes is more likely.

It is uncertain how much longer the LCMS can continue in unity with itself when grave divisions in both doctrine and the practice of that doctrine continue to tear the Synod apart. Some deny such doctrinal divisions, but others insist that the original doctrinal foundation of the Synod has been badly compromised.

There is not however agreement as to how to best teach that doctrine, nor as to what precisely the doctrine which is to be conveyed is. Some of the more so-called "traditionalist" or "confessionals" take an expansive view, preserving the practice as they received it and teaching not only Scripture, the Creeds, and Catechism but also the particular doctrinal documents formulated by the Reformation Fathers and later by the LC-MS as discussed above. Their opponents, some influenced by the wider culture, others driven by a passion for the lost, take a more limited view of what must be preserved of practice or conveyed beyond the basic facts of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection.

[edit] Law & Gospel tags

Which specific points in this section are possible POV violations? Fishal (talk) 19:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I see no POV violations whatsoever in the Law & Gospel section, either. The statements made in the Law & Gospel section are accurate, and it even points out an excellent source (Walther's book). The POV tag should be removed from this section. --Dulcimerist (talk) 18:37, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Fishal (talk) 04:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)