Talk:Lupang Hinirang

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Contents

[edit] lyrics in English

In English, the Philippine National Anthem can be sung as

Land of the Morning
Child of the Sun returning
With fervor burning
Do thee our hearts adore.

....

Land of Love
Beautiful land of love
It is for thee that we suffer and die.

...

That's all I remember, as well as the pride of my mother and father as they sang it for me.

Land of the morning, Child of the sun returning, With fervor burning Thee do our souls adore. Land dear and holy, Cradle of noble heroes. Ne'er shall invaders Trample thy sacred shore. Ever within thy skies and through thy clouds, And oe'r thy hills and sea, Do we behold the radiance Feel the throb of glorious liberty. Thy banner, dear to all our hearts Its sun and star alight O never shall its shinning field Be dimmed by tyrants might. Beautiful land of love, O land of light, In thine embrace 'tis rapture to lie; But it is glory ever, when thou art wronged for us, thy sons to suffer and die.

Of course, singing an English version is illegal (RA 8491, SECTION 36. The National Anthem shall always be sung in the national language within or without the country. The following shall be the lyrics of the National Anthem: [...]), and would open one to public censure (SECTION 48. Failure or refusal to observe the provisions of this Act; and any violation of the corresponding rules and regulations issued by the Office of the President, shall after proper notice and hearing, shall be penalized by public censure which shall be published at least once in a newspaper of general circulation.) see [1]. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 11:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added the English translation of the current official version...

To let readers know how different the old English version is. I also changed the very old and incorrect translation of the national anthem's title ('Beloved Land') which I think came to be so due to the following being that title's exact equivalents:
- the title of the most popular Tagalog translation in the 1940's (O Sintang Lupa), or
- the first line of the current official lyrics (Bayang magiliw...), which tends to be colloquially used as the title of the national anthem

I think everyone would agree with me that hinirang does not translate to anything near to the English word 'beloved' — the root word hirang means 'choose' in Tagalog. It has always bugged me that almost every printed English encyclopedia I read translates the title to 'Beloved Land.' Thank God for Wikipedia. dirrtychristian 10:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Could anyone add direct Filipino and English translations from Spanish?

Ambeth Ocampo has written a column about the translations the national anthem, which can be found in one of his books (Aguinaldo's Breakfast?). There, he points out that the second verse of the current English translation is different from that of the original Spanish.

“Hija del sol de Oriente” is literally “daughter of the Orient sun” or “daughter of the sunny Orient”, if I remember right (I don't know that much Spanish). Now we have “Perlas ng Silanganan”, “pearl of the Orient”. "Daughter" to "pearl". That's quite different. Uthanc 14:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, here's what babelfish brought up:

Adored earth Daughter of the sun of East, Its ardent fire, In you barking is. Land of loves! Of the heroismo it cradles, the invaders will never tread to you. In your blue sky, in your dawns, your mounts and your sea Esplende and it annoys the poem Of your loved freedom. Your pavilion, that in the combat the victory illuminated, it will never see dull His stars and their sun. Earth of happiness, the sun and loves, In your sweet lap is to live. It is a glory for your children, When they offend to you, by you to die.

Golly. 203.131.137.90 09:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's my translation from Spanish. It needs working on though:

Beloved land,
Daughter of the eastern sun
Its ardent fire
Roars inside you
Land of love
Cradle of heroism
The invaders
Will never trample upon you
In your blue sky, in your sunrises
In your hills, and in your sea
Does the poem of your beloved freedom
Shine and resonnate
Your flag, which in battles
victory illuminated,
Your stars and sun
Will never be extinguished.
Land of happiness, of the Sun, and of love,
In your lap it is sweet to live
It is a glory for your children to die for you,
When you are attacked.

--Chris S. 09:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ligaya>Happiness

>When someone oppresses you, it is our supereme honor
Shouldn't this be 'When someone oppresses you, it is our supreme honorhappiness' (to die for you)? or is this too awkward?Jondel


[edit] Cebuano translation

Hi all,

I have standardized the spelling of the Cebuano translation and used the version that I have always sung and I have always known to be "The Jess Vestil" version. This is first-hand knowledge; I have schooled during the time when the government of Cebu was still strong against the government of the Philippines and did not bow down to the latter's insistence of the use of the Filipino version as THE official and standard (and after 1998, the only legal) version.

--Bentong Isles 12:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Lupang Hinirang instrumental.ogg

Merry (Insert Holiday Here). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hi i just

I put a link to a youtube file which shows the audiovisual of the Philippine national anthem played during sign-on and sign off Justox dizaola 10:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

While it is important to know that the anthem is played at the start/end of television programming, I am not sure about the copyright of that video. I will not personally remove it, since I put up anthem videos myself on YouTube, but there could be others who could remove the link to the video. However, the video is pretty nice, since I seen it myself a few times. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pointers for improvement

Having edited the entire article myself, here are what I believe the possible improvements that can be done, if we are to promote his article into FA status:

  1. Improve the red links. Naturally ;)
  2. Sheet music (even if only a lead sheet). Since this is a song---and a public domain song, on top of that---it's logical that there should be information on how to sing this song. I'm working on this one, though, so please hang on....
  3. Picture of the Declaration of Independence. Even a scan of the reverse side of the (now-getting-rare but still in circulation) 10 peso bill, with a marching band in the backdrop (I think) would do. IMO, we need proof that there was a marching band when the Kawit declaration happened.
  4. A list of very notable versions in the present time. I am thinking of only the following renditions, because of their significance (we'll need heavy documentation for all these, though):
    1. The Redentor Romero arrangement, originally recorded by the Philippine Philharmonic Orchestra. This is the most popular orchestral version, and is almost always the only version performed by the PPO, the MPO and even by the San Miguel Philharmonic
    2. The Lucio San Pedro arrangement. I know he got some flak for this one, but let's face it, this is one of the more popular arrangements made on this song
    3. The Philippine Centennial arrangement. Significance is historical; this was commissioned during the Philippine Centennial. This is widely published in a book that is currently in circulation at major bookstores nationwide. In addition, this is also the version that is currently being played by some TV stations during sign-on and sign-off. (I verified this by listening to it during a TV network's sign-off with a copy of the sheet music in hand.)

I might add more to this list, so please hang on. In the meantime, please let me know what you think of it. --- Tito Pao 04:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move the article

I am thinking that this article should be moved to National anthem of the Philippines (some other countries are like this). This way, the scope of the article (as it is now) would be in line with title of the article. Do you get what I mean? This article should just be about Lupang Hinirang but instead we are covering a lot more ground here - and appropriately so, because the original national anthem was in Spanish. Furthermore, a lot of translations have been made. I will be moving this article in a few days, but I'd like your input first before doing so. --Chris S. 09:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is in it's own article, but I'm OK with a separate National anthem of the Philippines article, to discuss other(?) national anthems of the country had. --Howard the Duck 14:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to keep the article at this name. While this is the official national anthem of the PH, RA 8491 tells us the title is supposed to be Lupang Hinirang. What I would suggest that if an article is written on former anthems, it can be done, but just put them in brief here. I am also thinking about moving the translations to Wikisource and keeping just the current Tagalog, English, Spanish and the former Tagalog version h:ere. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to second User:Zscout370's opinion. In addition, IMO, we should ALL help together to improve or best prepare the present article for Feature Article status. I have started the todo template above. Please fill it in with anything else that is needed by the article for its improvement. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 19:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I am also going to email [2] to see if we could use the musical notation that he hosts. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
My take: in the vein of the Star Spangled Banner article, retain LH as the article title, and perhaps make "National Anthem of the Philippines" as a redirect. (Or, it could be the other way around, although I think LH should survive as the main article.)
With regard to the translations, the Tagalog, English and Spanish should be retained on the article, while the others should go to Wikisource. The Spanish edition cannot be simply deleted here because it's the original version from which the translations were derived (it is, to me, unthinkable, even if the current version is in Tagalog). The Camilo Osias translation in English, on the other hand, is the first legal and canonical (i.e. official) translation by virtue of a legislated law. The same goes with the Tagalog translation, which was twice made canonical by two different laws (first, by the law during Magsaysay's tenure; second, by virtue of R.A. 8194).
ZScout, I'm volunteering to do the notation...it's actually sitting right in my home computer :) --- Tito Pao 20:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Unlike the Star-Spangled Banner and other anthems, the current version of the national anthem wasn't always the main one, despite what the law says now. There have been others before it, as you all know. A more appropriate analogy would be National Anthem of Russia which goes into detail about former anthems as well as the anthem of the former USSR. I would be in favor of a split of the article. But then, would there be enough material to justify having an article about Lupang Hinirang alone? --Chris S. 21:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the Russian anthem (which I brought up to FA, btw), is that there is no official title of anthem. When I do national anthem, I either use the official title or most common title, as in the case of another FA of mine, My Belarusy. LH is the official title given out by the Philippines Government, so I wish to stick with that. Of course, we should add as much non-anthem related information in here, such as the reasons for composition, the mindset of the authors. Then, we could have a section devoting to previous anthems, possible new anthem suggestions and how LH became the anthem. The evolution of LH as the anthem should also be done. I would expand the protocol section. There is plenty what I personally with to do with this article, but I am not sure what tactic of attack I will use. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] YM chat/conference invitation sent

Please join and respond if you have received it. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 22:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yall can go ahead and start without me. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Pinay, please check you mail, thanks :) --- Tito Pao 22:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
We can all set this up at 4:00 to 5:00 PST if you like. Or send suggested time. I am on-line so give me a buzz. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 22:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I repeat, yall just go ahead and start without me. I won't hurt my feelings. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
As of time stamped after my name in this message, only 2 responses received, and Titopao's earliest available time is 4:00PST. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Input from AZ

Re Lupang Hinirang: The version of the UP Concert Concert Chorus which was arranged by the late Lucio San Pedro(that rubato slow movement at the start, then the fast regular tempo) has been discouraged since it does not reflect the true nature of the anthem. According to a certain critic Orosa Ambeth Ocampo (Dr. Orosa, i forgot his first name) that version "desecrates our national anthem." Even the correct rhythm of a note was also pointed out. (I guess we don't have such liberty as the Americans do to their anthem). Too long to explain the details. Bottomline, that version is not the ideal version to be put as the official national anthem, lest we'll get in trouble too. DECS(Dept. of Education, Culture and Sports) and the LIKHAWIT Enterprises made a version (supposedly the corrected version) arranged by Ed Nepomuceno but I don't know where we can get a recording of this version. I could ask EdNep, the arranger; we were together with the Madrigal Singers.(From AZ Received via email 01-08-07 12:05 AM) --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 20:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Due to the controversy of the UPCC version, the Ed Nep version was recorded by the Madrigal Singers for the celebration of the Philippine Centennial (during Pres. Ramos' time). So, there is a recording of that version. Who has it, that's what I'm trying to find out. I'll email Ed Nep tonight. I will also inquire from Ryan Cayabyab. They might even have a better recording of the anthem with the San Miguel orchestra and choir.(From AZ Received via email 01-08-07 8:59 PM)
Here's EdNep's reply: Hey Frannie!!! Happy New Year! Wala akong copy ng Lupang Hinirang but I always hear it when I listen to GMA radio, AM pa. Alam ko kasi, it was distributed to all movie houses and radio stations during Ramos's time para patugtugin, so I think you will not have any problem in copyrights or whatever...yata ha since public property na yon.. Ngayon kasi GMA na lang ang nagpapatugtog non sa program ni Mike Enriquez in the morning. Great to hear from you Frannie! Kelan mo ako pamamasahihan jan? HEHEHE (From AZ Received via email Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:14 -0800 (PST)--Ate Pinay (talk•email) 20:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] English translation

What is the English translation of the phrase "Lupang Hinirang"? --Howard the Duck 04:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I seen it translated as "Chosen land." User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The Philippines article says "Beloved Land". I'd rather agree with "chosen" since "hinirang" means chose. --Howard the Duck 05:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I also notice the article here has "chosen land" in the lyrics (LH is mentioned in the first sentence, second paragraph). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Chosen Land"

Please read WP:NOT#OR and WP:MADEUP about this kind of translation. There is already an English translation which is more "original" than the Filipino version. Why not delete it? -- 210.213.67.182 15:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

We include amateur translations of other anthems; the official English version is listed below. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Why not put the "official" version on the top and delete the "amateur" version instead? Why there should be two versions? Its confusing! This is the only anthem that has multiple translations in English (and even Filipino)! Although the other Filipino translation is alright since it might be created by experts instead of amateur Wikipedian users who may not have been established their expertise in translation. There is even a contradiction from an amateur Wikipedian user (Chosen Land) and Mr. David Kendall (Beloved Land, please see the link below) in the English translation of the title of the anthem despite for the fact that this "amateur" translation already made a contradiction with the English translation of Senator Camilo Osias and Mary A. Lane. How can you guarantee that this "amateur" translation is the accurate translation of the current Filipino version? Why not just make a "literal" translation out of it, not just an "amateur" and "poetic"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.69.221 (talk) 13:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Philippine flag is wrong.

As far as I remember the sun on the Philippine flag never had a face. Please replace the illustration in the article with the correct one. -Concerned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.196.194 (talk) 04:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The sun had a face back in Aguinaldo's time. --seav 05:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Assuming that to be true, ither way seems legally OK to me (speaking as a non-Filipino, non-lawyer, and non-Filipino-lawyer). RA8491 says, in part:
A. Design of the National Flag
SECTION 4. The flag of the Philippines shall be blue, white and red with an eight-rayed golden-yellow sun and three five-pointed stars, as consecrated and honored by the people.
It looks like there is some room for argument either that (A) the face is disallowed because it is not mentioned or (B) the face is allowed (perhaps even arguably required) because the version of the flag which includes the face was "consecrated and honored by the people." -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Official lyrics" section

One wonders about the naming of this section. "Official" in what sense? Surely not in the sense of RA8491, the Flag and Heraldic code of the Philippines, Section 36 of which makes it very clear that the only officially recognized lyrics the Filipino lyrics. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Look under the lyrics, there is a note already denoting this fact. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems clumsy, though, for a section titled "Official lyrics" to present three versions with a note explaining that two of the three versions presented are not official after all. Suggest retitling the section "Lyrics" and changing the note to explain that only the filipino-language version is considered "Official" by the RP Government.

Also, the The original Spanish text: Filipinas section presents a fourth version and explains: "became official in 1899", and the Direct translation of Lupang Hinirang in English: Beloved Country section presents a fifth version and explains: "Although not the official canonical version ...". The article also presents a sixth, seventh, and eighth version, but without mentioning "Official" in connection with those three. I don't follow all of this, and wonder whether there may be several alternative definitions of the word "Official" in play here. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 03:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Apparent problems

Recent changes to the text of some of the anthem versions in this article popped this up on my watchlist. I did a quick check against this page on the msc.edu website, which cites Sonya Zaide's book The Philippine National Flag and Anthemas its source, and noticed the following:

  • Under Official lyrics, the filipino language version differs from the version mandated here in Republic Act No. 8491 as follows:
This article RA8491 difference
Bayang magiliw Bayang magiliw, comma
Perlas ng Silanganan, Perlas ng Silanganan comma
Alab ng puso Alab ng puso, comma
Sa dibdib mo'y buhay. Sa Dibdib mo'y buhay. capitalization
blank line no blank line blank line?
Lupang hinirang, Lupang Hinirang, capitalization
Duyan ka ng magiting, Duyan ka ng magiting,
Sa manlulupig, Sa manlulupig,
'Di ka pasisiil. Di ka pasisiil. single-quote
blank line no blank line blank line?
Sa dagat at bundok, Sa dagat at bundok,
Sa simoy at sa langit mong bughaw, Sa simoy at sa langit mong bughaw,
May dilag ang tula at awit
Sa paglayang minamahal.		 May dilag ang tula,

At awit sa paglayang minamahal.

 line break, capitalization, comma
blank line no blank line blank line?
Ang kislap ng watawat mo'y Ang kislap ng watawat mo'y
Tagumpay na nagniningning, Tagumpay na nagniningning,
Ang bituin at araw niya Ang bituin at araw niya, comma
Kailan pa ma'y 'di magdidilim. Kailan pa ma'y di magdidilim, single-quote
blank line no blank line blank line?
Lupa ng araw, ng luwalhati't pagsinta, Lupa ng araw ng luwalhati't pagsinta,
Buhay ay langit sa piling mo; Buhay ay langit sa piling mo, comma vs. semicolon
Aming ligaya, na 'pag may mang-aapi Aming ligaya na pag may mang-aapi, comma
Ang mamatay nang dahil sa 'yo. Ang mamatay ng dahil sa iyo. text, single-quote
I'm not a Filipino-speaker, and don't know whether those differences are substantive.


  • Under Official lyrics, the english version headed Unofficial English translation is footnoted as follows:

This translation is not intended to be sung, as the words do not correspond with the music. However, it is recommended for accurate translation of the current and only official Filipino version of the Philippine national anthem into other language editions of Wikipedia. In addition, this text differs from that of the Philippine Hymn of 1938, since the latter is a direct translation from the original Spanish version Filipinas.

The translation is not attributed and I'm guessing that it was done by some WP editor. WP:V says, "Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."
  • Under Earlier versions, the version headed Filipinas differs from the version [here on the msc.edu site as follows:
This article msc.edu difference
Tierra adorada Tierra adorada
Hija del sol de Oriente, Hija del sol de Oriente comma
Su fuego ardiente
en ti latiendo está.		 Su fuego ardiente en ti latiendo esta. linebreak, accent
¡Tierra de amores! Patria de amores! text
Del heroísmo cuna, Del heroismo cuna,
Los invasores Los invasores
No te hallarán jamás. No te hallaran jamas. accent
En tu azul cielo, en tus auras, En tu azul cielo, en tus auras,
En tus montes y en tu mar, En tus montes y en tu mar comma
Esplende y late el poema Esplende y late el poema
De tu amada libertad. De tu amada libertad.
Tu pabellón, que en las lides Tu pabellon, que en las lides
La victoria iluminó, La victoria ilumino comma
No verá nunca apagados No vera nunca apagados accent
Sus estrellas ni su sol. Sus estrellas y su sol.
Tierra de dichas, de sol y amores, Tierra de dichas, del sol y amores,
En tu regazo dulce es vivir. En tu regazo dulce es vivir.
Es una gloria para tus hijos, Es una gloria para tus hijos,
Cuando te ofenden, por ti morir. Cuando de ofenden, por ti morir.
Also, the arrangement of blank lines looks different between the two versions. I'm not a Spanish-speaker, and don't know whether the differences are substantive.
  • Under Earlier versions, the english language version headed "The Philippine Hymn" disagrees with the version on msc.edu. The difference involves a grammatical error in the version in this article. The word tyrants is used as the possessive form of the noun tyrant and, as such, should correctly read "tyrant's" as it does on the msc.edu website. This article asserts regarding the version it presents: "translation was made by Senator Camilo Osias and Mary A. Lane and was made official by an act of the Philippine Congress in 1938", and I don't know whether the translations made by those persons agree with the text presented in this article or not. I believe that the act of congress referred to here is Commonwealth Act No. 382, which this page says was signed on September 5, 1938, but I have not been able to find an online copy of that act. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
For the Filipino lyrics, just stick with RA 8491. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)