Talk:Lummi

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[edit] Question as to etymology of "lummi"

Hi. Like other Chinook Jargon-type folks, I've assumed that the Lummi name comes from the Chinook for "old woman" or "widow", which is spelled the same or as lummieh (from Fr. la vieille). I'd add this to the page as a comment but wanted to make sure of it; or is it connected etymologically to Lhaq'temish somehow? Looks like this page has been partly written by a member of the Lummi so I'm hoping they're watching it as well. Comments/correction?Skookum1 22:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC) ~

[edit] Xwlemi

Lummi does not come from Chinnok. Jargon is - or was - used lightly and rarely. "Lummi" comes from the Lummi Lanuage- or Xwlemi Chosen. Settlers and Europeans could not pronounce the word Xwlemi and in turn began to say Lummi.

Right. The word 'Lummi' comes from /xʷlə́mi/ in the Lummi language, not from Chinook Jargon. Independent evidence that this is a native Lummi word comes from comparison with Klallam. In Klallam the word for 'Lummi' is /nəxʷyə́mi/, showing a consistent l/y sound correspondence. That is, for every native Lummi word that has /l/, the Klallam cognate has /y/. The only words in Klallam that have /l/ come from Chinook Jargon like /saplín/ 'bread' and /ləmətú/ 'sheep'. So Klallam innovated /l/ > /y/ before contact with Chinook Jargon and the Klallam /nəxʷyə́mi/ must have come from Lummi before Chinook Jargon influence. If 'Lummi' had come from Chinook Jargon, the Klallam word would not show the sound change. So the word 'Lummi' must be older than Chinook Jargon. Eben Flutt (talk) 00:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] enrolled tribal members

There are two different numbers here, which one is correct? Narnibird 02:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enrollment

There are two numbers. The Enrollment count refers to the official enrollment count of federall recognized tribal member - while the reservation population refers to the number of people living within the reservation boundries (including non-enrolled persons)

[edit] Location/Maps

I'd love to improve this page with a map showing the location of the reservation, and maybe another showing the traditional/pre-European location of the tribe, but I don't know how to be able to know if maps are useable or not. Can anyone help? Murderbike 00:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I've got some close-up basemaps of the northern puget sound-gulf of georgia-fraser valley region, including sat photo cutouts, but don't have time to compile links for you right now; later.Skookum1 00:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Territory

saw the addition about Point Roberts, Lummi Peninsula etc; also would not this include their participation in the huge fishing stations on the South Arm of the Fraser alongside other Straits and River peoples, and if I'm not mistaken prior to the boundary ties with the Tsartlip, Tsawout, Penelakut, Tsawwassen and Semiahmoo and Musqueam were much tighter, no? All pretty much one language, North Straits Salish although I know Sənčaθən, written as SENĆOŦEN /Saanich language calls itself that, but it's only a dialect of North Straits Salish, isn't it? and/or the Tzoukes, Clallams and Songhees, I'm not sure, but I know the "small islands" people (i.e. the gulf-san juans-northern saanich) were "all together" back then, not divided by the border. I stand ready to be corrected on this; I'm just interested in recognizing cross-border native relationships/history, as also in the case of the Syilx and Ktunaxa, Haida, Tsimshian etc. adn the old ties between such as the Makah and Nuu-chah-nulth-aht or the Skwxwu7mesh and Nooksack and (I'm not sure but maybe also with them) the Suguamish; I know there's a mythic connection between the two respective Chehalis peoples...Skookum1 00:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

good questions. my knowledge is pretty limited, i just recently read a book that focused on pre-White history of the Lummi and Nooksack tribes. from what this book said, they both seemed to keep to locations south of the border. I don't have the book with me to confirm which islands had confirmed settlement sites. as to cross-border relationships, i know we can throw in the Thompson River Salish, as they had a lot of contact with the Upper Skagits. Murderbike 03:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I almost mentioned them in the course of that - Nlaka'pamux we call 'em properly now, if we know how to pronounce it ;-) - and knew enough to put them in Washington cats; but I don't know if they ever had settlements south of the line or if it was just "traditional territory". As for the keeping to south of the border thing, my first question about that book is how geo-NPOV is it? Lots of Canadian-side publications/articles draw a blind spot at the border when they shouldn't, even when they're talking about pre-Oregon Treaty, and similar a lot of US-side publications/articles do the same the other way, in the same way that natinoal maps just show the other place's coastline but nothing on it ;-) All I "know" "for sure" is that the Lummis came and went from the Gulf Islands, and the people who live on the other side of the border used to come and go the San Juans, and given the shared language I'd expect kinship is part of the situation; the fishing stations on the south arm of the Fraser, which I've got a description of somewhere (boggling in scale) drew Duguamish and Clallams as well as other Straits peoples; I would have thought the Semiahmoos and Tsawwassens had close relations with the Lummis....or were they rivals/enemies perhaps? (in the way some adjoining Fraser River and Vanc Isl. communities/groups were....)19:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, it was a couple weeks ago that I read the Lummi/Nooksack oriented book, and it was actually more of a university thesis type paper that a guy wrote while he was going to Western Washington State College (now WWU) in Bellingham, I think in 1972. my impression is that the guy was more worried about the tribes themselves than "local" issues, but I don't really have any reason to know this for sure. The other book that I just finished focused on the Upper Skagits, and very much made it seem like their relationship with the Thompson's was a bad one, that they were always afraid of being attacked by them. It also mentioned fears of attacks from Kwakiutls and Haidas, as well the Lummi. Murderbike 20:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

oh yeah, as to your original question, that book/thesis also really focused on SETTLEMENTS, as opposed to just places they might frequent in trading with others. I guess that would be the info I would by default be focusing on as well. Murderbike 20:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)