Talk:Lumbini
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[edit] Confusion
There is some confusion as to whether Lumbini is in Nepal or in India. Let me make things pretty clear; some people in India are falsely claiming their rights on the birthplace of the Buddha by trying to re-make Lumbini in India!
This is the same group that is also trying to spread worldwide rumors that Nepal is NOT the birthplace of the holy man as was origially seen !!
All such ideas are totally rubbbish... it is again a case of a bigger and a stronger country trying to impose its powers on a smaller and a naiive one..
I wouldn't worry about it. Historical records and chronicles are the best evidence available that prove Lumbini has always been in Nepal, and that Gautama's mother, Mahamaya, was indeed in Lumbini at the time of the birth. Many accounts show that the Shakya clan lived in Nepal, not India, and that the palace of Suddhodana, Gautama's father, was somewhere "in the foothills of the Himalaya". If this is true then there are very few places in India where Gautama could have spent his early life, as the southern foothills of the Himalaya (of the region) rest mostly in Nepal and not in India. It is possible though that Suddhodana relocated his family at some point later. --Bentonia School 16:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If you look at Gautam Buddha Article it states that Lumbini was part of India. No matter how many times I change it to Nepal it always changes back to India. How can I make the change Permanent? Spartathreehundred 05:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
A simple answer to all questions is DID NEPAL EXIST DURING THE TIME OF BUDDHA??? NO! Nepal didnot exist until a few hundered years ago. So, this discussion is meaningless. Its true Lumbini is located inside modern Nepal's terai region close to the boundary agreed to by gurkhas and the british doesn't change the fact that Buddha was a prince from Ancient Indian(Aryavarta) kingdom Kapilavastu of Shakyas(which by the way was located on both sides of the present border) in the Kosala region. As for the location of Lumbini even the Buddha article provides a link to this article. Lumbini, Kapilavastu, Kosala, Kushinagar, Bodh Gaya, Sarnath were all located in Ancient India(Aryavarta not modern India) eventhough these palces maybe in modern Nepal or India today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 08:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
According to ancient Buddhist text(written around 500 AD), Mulasarvasti vadavinaya, Shakyas of Kabilvastu (Kapilvastu i.e kingdom of Buddha) and Baniyas of Sravasti, came to Newal (believed to be Kathmandu Valley, Nepal) from the south. Sometime later, Bhikshu Ananda also entered Newal. The word Kabilvastu refers to Kapilvastu and Newal refers to Nepal. It is to be recalled that the indigenous people of Nepal call themselves Nepami or Newami. Other people call them Newar.
So Kapilavastu and Nepal mandala were two different entities. So, how has Lumbini always been part of Nepal? as some calim here when Nepal itself is not mentioned until 400 AD. Even at that time it corresponds to Kathmandu Valley, and Kapliavastu was still a separate kingdom then.
Another Buddhist text Manjushrimula Kalpa has mentioned Manadeva as king of Nepal Mandala(Kathmandu Valley and sorrounding areas). It also mentions Lalitpur and Bhaktapur mandalas. The time of the composition of Mulasarvastivadavinaya is 3 century A.D(400's). And the time of the composition of Manjushriulakalpa is not beyond the reign of Manadeva (464–506A.D).
Now Buddha lived around 480-500 BC a full 1000 years later the name Nepal appears that too to describe a small part of modern Nepal(i.e Kathmandu Valley) which even at that later date(i.e a 1000 years later, did not include Lumbini and Kapilavastu(as Kapilavastu is mentioned separately). Even here Nepal or Newal is described as a Mandala, not a country or kingdom, it was a tributary of Guptas at one point. Mauryas also held sway over Kapilavastu. Terai(where Lumbini is located) was not part of Gurkha kingdom during Mughal era but was under Mughal rule. It is NOW in the country of Nepal. End of Discussion!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] A Correction
The article says that Gautama was the founder of Buddhism, but this is not true. Buddha and the philosophy of an earlier Buddhism existed when Gautama was born in 586 BCE. In fact, it is told, that the mystic Kala Devala, upon seeing the baby Gautama a few days after the birth, reacted first with a smile, then with tears, then by bowing and touching the baby Gautama's feet. When asked by Gautama's father, Suddhodana, why he reacted so, Kala Devala said: "I smiled when I saw him because I have been privileged to see a being who will know Buddhahood. Then I wept, because as I know my own future I know that I shall not live to meet him then. Then I bowed to touch the feet of the greatest being in the whole world." Gautama became a revolutionary in that he redefined Buddhism, but he did not found it. --Bentonia School 16:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Relevant books
Source http://www.asianstudies.emory.edu/sinhas/kprb0401a.html
Lumbini Chakra: Geometric Interpretation of the Archaelogical Remains (1998, Sashi Rimal) by Shankar Nath Rimal was written in response to a request by the Lumbini Development Trust regarding how the Mayadevi temple complex could be reconstructed and developed. Through various diagram-generating exercises, Rimal tries to prove that Lumbini did not grow on its own without formal planning, and shows how the remains that have been located at the birth-site of Gautam Buddha are related to each other in a geometric pattern. He suspects that "the planning process could have been initiated by the Emperor Ashoka." We should expect expert commentary on Rimal's attempt from archaelogists who have studied the site.
