Talk:Lughnasadh

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Contents

[edit] Merge

Parts of this article were merged from Lughnasa. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 04:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of Lughnasadh

Is the pronuciation of Lughnasadh \'lüg-nə-səd\? Equivalently, (1) is the primary stress on the first syllable and (2) is the d at the end pronounced or silent?

I understand that it's pronounced "Loo-nas-ah" with the accent on the first syllable.

[edit] Sun God?

As the page on Lugh says, Lugh probably wasn't a sun god. I don't know to what extent his festival involved the sun, though. Someone ought to clarify this.

[edit] Sun

Let's try to work it out with good reason. Since Imbolc on the northern hemisphere coincides with Lughnasadh on the southern, and since Imbolc marks the middle between winter solstice and the first day of Spring Lughnasadh on the southern hemisphere is "the opposite" of Imbolc, which means Lughnasadh marks the middle between summer solstice and the first day of fall. These are the days when the sun gradually loses power and the days become shorter. Is this right and does it help? Still we need someone who knows. Limbonic 20:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Lammas?

Shouldn't this article be merged with the Lammas article? They are closely related and everywhere else I have ever read about them they are mentioned together. Pschroeter 18:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Lammas is Anglo-Saxon in origin and Lughnasadh is Celtic in origin. Just because modern pagans have merged the two into one celebration does not mean they are equivalent for all time. Jacqui★ 14:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Keep them separate. -- nae'blis 17:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Thought it might be interesting that a letter from my Irish great-etc. grandfather, written in 1849, mentions having left Belfast to sail to Philadelphia "just after Lammas." He was Church of England. Depjohnson 16:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holiday in Switzerland

I find the sentence about the holiday in Switzerland to be confusing and in need of clarification:

"1 August as the national holiday of Switzerland, ancient homeland of the Iron Age Helvetii, with its traditional bonfires might trace to this ancient Celtic tradition."

  • Should it say "1 August is the national holiday of Switzerland..."?
  • Maybe add some additional information, such as:

"On 1 August, the national holiday of Switzerland, it is traditional to celebrate with bonfires. This practice may trace back to the Lughnasadh celebrations of the Helvetii, Celtic people of the Iron Age who lived in what is now Switzerland."

This is how I read the sentence, but I am not familiar with Swiss culture and not sure if my interpretation of the above sentence is correct.

-Massjit 21:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

OK, this needs a lot of work. I'm going to start the process that some of us have been doing with the other Gaelic festivals, using the changes on Samhain as a model. --Kathryn NicDhàna 05:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


In Castile (Spain), was a prerroman God, in many villages is a festival summer like Cabezon de Pisuerga (Valladolid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.57.207.148 (talk) 23:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Sabbats" Template

I have removed the "Sabbats" box that was recently placed at the top of this article. I feel it is misleading in that it re-instates the POV that Lunasa is primarily a Wiccan or Neopagan thing. We have worked hard to make this and the other Gaelic fire festivals more historically accurate, and more reflective of the spectrum of people who observe the festival. We have a Gaelic festivals nav box at the bottom, and links in the body to the Wiccan "wheel of the year"; we do not need an additional nav box for the Wiccan sabbats. --Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation

l̪ˠuːnˠəsˠə would not be too bad -however velarising the s might be hard for many people

the -adh is /@/ in Connacht

[edit] With apologies to Non-pagan Celticists

The article is looking good but over -here- it would seem that this discussion page has been totally commandeered by us Neopagans. This discussion-page should also look "friendly" to persons interested in Celtic Studies who are not pagan, even though 90% of the hits on the article may be coming from a NP context. earrach July 19, 2007

[edit] Opening statement re the date-thereof

In the opening, I pulled "celebrated... or at the time of the ripening of the local berry crop, or on the full moon nearest the midpoint between the summer solstice and autumnal equinox." in that this material does not really belong in the opening and the full-moon statement is not supported in the lore. It may be the custom of some modern Neopagan (Wiccan, Druid or CR) tradition, but is not supported in demonstably ancient traditions. earrach July 19, 2007

The berry thing is sourced from Danaher. Don't recall right off hand the source on the full moon thing, but it's not a recent invention. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 16:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The berry association (bilberies) is a folk custom from the Christian period covered by Mac Neill as well I believe. My concern is using the "full-moon" as a mode of fixing fire festival dates. I am not aware of anything but modern speculation on such a factor (and it seems ill-advised at that, if there's nothing in the ancient record about full-moons but we do have have -two- 2000 year old citations -Pliny and Tacitus- for the folks north and west of the Alps, now being classed "celtic", as having fixed their sacred cycles by the First Quarter Moon, not the Full...). earrach July 20, 2007

[edit] "Celtic Reconstructionists" are not the only non-Wiccans...

The Recon section of the article looks a little heavy-handed, almost like an advertisement for their way of doing things. A section on Wiccan ways here is understandable but such a large footprint here by the Recons is a bit much. Sorta like an article about Christianity featuring only Roman Catholic (Wicca) and Jehova's Witnesses (C.Recon) perspective sections. earrach July 19, 2007

Who or what were you thinking of adding? - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 16:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
-Not really to add anything - I was hoping we'd trim it down -the article's about Lughnassadh, not an advert for CR... Perhaps what would suffice would be a hyperlink to an explanation of Celtic Reconstructionism on another page. earrach July 20, 2007
Well, the Neopagan section is about modern practice. I don't think it's an "advert" for any of the traditions covered. I'd be more inclined to add more historical content and modern secular material than to cut the sections on modern practices. When bloodofox started overhauling this, the entire article was almost thoroughly about Wicca. What we have now is well sourced. If we cut things, I suspect they'll just get added back in a less accurate manner, as tends to happen as the festival day approaches. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 16:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lugunassatis?

"In Gaulish, the festival was called Lugunassatis." Where? I've never seen any inscription that mentions any such festival. It looks like a reconstructed form borrowing from Irish, but it's not attested to in any Gaulish inscription or classical reference.MaryJones 01:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm a bit uncomfortable with that phrasing, as well. I'm pretty sure that's a reconstructed form. Do we know for certain that the Gauls celebrated a festival at that time? If so, we could say there was a festival, but we don't know what name they used. If we aren't certain they had a festival at that time, we should just cut the Gaulish reference, imho. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, I looked around. Apparently it is a reconstructed form, so at the very least we need to asterisk it. I don't know if there's been scholarly publication of that form. In popular publications, Tadgh MacCrossan used it in The Sacred Cauldron, and Gaulish Reconstructionists seemed to have picked it up from there. Alexei Kondratiev may have also used it in The Apple Branch. I'll see what else I can dig up... - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning

What does Lughnasadh mean? Remigiu (talk) 15:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)