Talk:Lugger

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There seems to be some confusion as to which sail of the fifie is a standing lug and which not. Despite the captions, both pictures show the main as the standing lugsail and the mizzen as the dipping one. I have therefore stored the note about the steam winch here pending discussion. [The extreme size of the dipping lugsail was only possible with the introduction of steam powered capstains to facilitate the dipping.](RJP 23:20, 26 February 2006 (UTC))

I've made some changes to the article, explainging that the foresail is the dipping lug and the aft sail the standing lug. I found this extract giving details of the method of dipping a Fifies forelug.

Methods of Dipping.

"Imagine tacking in a fresh breeze with those tremendous forelugs flogging about. First they were lowered down to deck, then unhooked from the traveller, hooked on the burton, swung aft and then for'ard on the other side of the mast, unhooked and rehooked on the traveller, and hoisted again. During this time the mast stood foursquare on its reputation. being completely unstayed until the halyards were unhooked to the weather side and the burton set up. Smart handling was essential, and even with the fall of the haylard taken to the capstan, it was heavy work, but hositing by hand was back-breaking, five to ten minutes' sweating to get the sail set and drawing properly for most of the old skippers were very particular about the cut and set of their sails." Sailing Drifter, Edgar J. March Chapter 12 (Fifies and Zulus), Page: 266

The fore sail is a dipping lug. The mizzen the standing lug.

On a Fifie the yard of the standing lug remains on the port side. As I believe they worked their nets from the starboard side, however I need to check this.

The Diagram is based on a plan of the "True Vine", Built in 1907 at St. Monance, Fifie. Length: 71' 1.5" Beam: 22' 6" Depth: 8" Tonnage: 53.

Fore mast LOA: 65' 6" Dia: 22' 9" Fore yard LOA: 31' 0" Dia: 8' 4"

Mizzen mast LOA: 55' 0" Dia: 15' 8" Mizzen yard LOA: 25' 6" Dia: 8' 4" Mizzen boom LOA: 28' 0" Dia: 9' 7"

Maybe the Fifie isn't the best example to use to illustrate a lugger?--PeterNisbet 03:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

You are right. On reflection, the mainsail could not be a standing lug with the tack bent to the stem-head as shown. On the port tack the forward part of the sail would be aback and acting as a brake. Tacking does seem to have been a bit of a performance. It leaves one wondering why they didn't have a main forestay and keep the luff of the sail close to the mast with the tack bent to the mast as with the mizzen. If they wanted to make work for themselves, they could have cut the throat back toward the mast so that they could peak the yard to dip it while someone unbent the tack each time they went about. As it was, they seem to have struck the sail. They certainly would not have got away with that on a less open coast. Imagine trying to beat up an Essex creek as the quotation describes.

As to whether the fifie is a good example; it gave rise to thought, therefore to greater understanding. What's wrong with that? :-)

I'll keep out of the way so that you are free to develop the article properly. (RJP 09:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC))