Talk:Luger P08 pistol

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[edit] Collectible

The section on Lugers being collectible items states... "All Luger pistols have collector value with some models, such as the "American Eagle" (having the eagle stamp over the chamber), being more desirable." I'm no collector, but why exactly is this more desirable? Is this a valid statement and not just a replica producer putting their brand name on he net? I might be missing the point, but I'd have thought an original would be more desirable than an American produced replica with incorrect markings. Anyone got any input on this? --79.72.166.168 23:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I seem to remember that the Lugers with the American Eagle stamp over the chamber were imported by the licensed US importer (Stoger Arms?) into the US in the period before WW 2. As this was the Depression period in the US as well as in the rest of the industrial world, not many were imported. There may be fake "American Eagle" Lugers around and possibly that's what user 79.72.166.168 is refering to. --TGC55 21:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Effective Range?

What is the effective range for the Luger? --Ambassador Weyoun 03:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

About 30 yards according to this page. Thernlund (Talk | Contribs) 06:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
NONSENCE
A hangun's range largely depends on the shooter's ability to use a 'Short-Range-Intended Weapon' at greater distances.
Look at wat Ed McGivern did in the 30's with Smith&Wesson revolvers at distances upto 600 yards.
Although by far not being as good as Ed McGivern, I regularly demonstrated this on the shooting-range by placing all (Or most of) my shots (Out of a S&W mod. 39 semi-auto 9mm. pistol) in a target about as big as a man's chest at a distance of 200 metres.
Ed Mc.Givern did this (Crouched and leaning against a tree) at 600 yards with a 357 magnum S&W!
To do this kind of shooting a lot of things have to be taken into account (Like elevation) but the biggest problem is that, outdoors, the slower handgun-bullets (Typically MACH 1 when leaving the muzzle) may undergo a lot of drift caused by wind.81.245.162.57 19:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok. -Thernlund (Talk | Contribs) 19:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Effective range usually takes into account terminal, not just external ballistics. You maybe able to hit a target at 600yds with a pistol but it's doubtfull wether any serious wounding can be caused. Veritas Panther 03:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too many pictures?

Currently there are seven pictures on this article one right after the other. This seems like too many considering that the article itself is fairly small. BigSciZot 19:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I boldly removed of the redundant pics while doing other edits. Thernlund 21:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questions

What is the difference between a Luger and a Ruger. Is Luger the type of gun, while Ruger is a brand?

You can ever go as far as to say they're two different "brands" that just share an inconsequential similarity in their spelling. Veritas Panther 03:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly some Rugers look a bit like Lugers.--Kalmia 11:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Ruger is a brand name , Luger is a model name and in fact made by different manufacturers like Mauser and Krieghoff. Modern manufacturers are Stoeger and indeed Ruger. The Luger was named P08 (Pistole 08) in the german army and P06 in the swiss army. Still the most used name for this kind/model/type of handgun is "Luger". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.171.1 (talk) 11:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Toggle lock

'Toggle lock' links to 'firearm actions', which contains no mention of toggle lock. Someone please edit it to include it. -Toptomcat 14:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if it's worth mentioning the Maxim-type guns regarding its toggle lock, since the Luger's action is very much like an "open-topped Vickers". Just a thought, anyway...--194.247.53.233 17:11, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

The title of this article should be Parabellum (pistol) or something similar, since that is the proper name of the gun.

It should not. The ammunition for the 9mm version of the Luger is called 9mm ParaBellum, 9mm Para, 9x19, 9mm or 9mm Luger. ParaBellum comes from : Si vis pacem, para bellum which means those whos seek peace, prepare for war.

This is not the only cartridge it was chambered for, there are also lugers chambered in .30 Luger, 7.65mm Parabellum also referred to by some as 7,65 swiss or 7,65 siwss ordnance.

The proper name is "Luger Pistol" and not "Luger P08 pistol" hence, the Luger was called P08 (Pistole 08) in the german army but p06 in the swiss army. The name Luger is an overall name and P08 is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.171.1 (talk) 11:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Circle thing on top

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the function of the distinctive circular thing at the top rear of the weapon?--85.210.21.76 18:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It is the pivot point of the toggle. This part hits the frame on recoil as the barrel assembly moves backwards which unlocks the toggle. This allows the bolt to move rearwards and ejects the cartridge. It is also were you grasp the toggle in order to cock/load/unload the weapon. Most weapons you pull back on a cocking device, with the Luger you pull upwards in relation to the barrel. With the 1900 model equipped with a toggle lock you pull back and then up. It's easier than it sounds once you get the hang of it.
Thanks - I eventually found a diagram that showed how it works, too.

[edit] Hot ammo

What does "hot" mean in the following sentence?: "American 9 mm ammunition is nowhere near as hot as German military-spec ammunition" Could that be re-written for people unfamiliar with firearms jargon?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffkw (talk • contribs)

I believe that 'hot' means it has more powder behind the bullet. Someone correct me if I am wrong. --Kalmia 11:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Correct "a hot load" means a load with a relatively high pressure for the given caliber. (meaning more gunpowder in the cartridge than average)

It should be noted that AND TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY that HOT LOADS DO NOT BELONG IN A WWII LUGER ! Jamming / problems of feeding cartridges into the chamber has nothing to do with a "weak load". Those problem are related to cartridge length, overall length and bullet shape. Modern ammo is to be considered to strong for the old luger.

Sorry, but the preceeding remark is wholly incorrect. Most Luger jams are "stovepipes", i.e. caused by too low recoil force. 9mm Para ammo was loaded far hotter in pre-NATO days, often reaching 475 ft/lbs. A good, gunsmith-checked Luger will work far better with loads similar to those it has designed to handle- hotter then most contemporary commercial ammo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.41.119.73 (talk) 18:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Renaming

I'm thinking this article should be renamed P08 Luger or Luger P08, as this is more correct and encyclopedic title than "Luger Pistol". Any objections? --Commander Zulu 09:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

It's my understanding that the article is named "Luger pistol" because the "P08" designation is a specific German military name and it is also know under the Swiss "P00" (adopted in 1900) designation among others.--Sus scrofa 13:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The Luger was named P08 (Pistole 08) in the german army and P06 in the swiss army. Still the most used name for this kind/model/type of handgun is "Luger". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.171.1 (talk) 11:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

Shoudlnt this be know as the P08. luger is a american term(sry if more western nations refered it to as luger)and this is a german gun. shouldnt it be refered to as te german name. p.s dont insult me and call me an idiot i make a valid point. (Esskater11 20:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Like I say in the section above this one, it was in swiss service as the OP00 before the German Army adapted it, the German Navy called it P04. P08 refers only to the German Army Luger and not other ones, including civilian pistols. --Sus scrofa 14:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

ohh.since most of the common names of not so common arent offical correct. i think weshoul have to name this artical the entire name fo the guin to be right. anyone agree???(Esskater11 23:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

I'm sorry, I don't quite follow. "Luger pistol" is a catchall (and common) name for this pistol, while P08 is more specific, that's all I'm saying.--Sus scrofa 13:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

that may be right but not every coutnry may call it that. it migth only alppy to U.S(216.49.71.194 18:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC))

The article should be moved to P08 or "Parabellum pistol". "Luger" is just its US nickname. Leibniz 09:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
There's precedent for the naming convention on the English Language version of this article. "Parabellum pistol" is entirely too broad a name. P08 invites a disambiguation page and can be confused with the Heckler & Koch P8 pistol. In English-language circles, listing the name of the designer along with the model number and type is common. For instance M1 Garand. "Luger" isn't just a nickname, it's the name of the designer.--Asams10 09:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The correct name is Parabellum P.08 & the page title should reflect that, not the American bias to "Luger". Use a redirect from that & a dab from P8 (which shouldn't come up often anyhow, since how many look for "P.08 pistol"?). Trekphiler 06:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

And how many people would look for Parabellum and how many for P08 ? The overall name for this model / type of handgun is a "Luger" of which consists many types. To call it P08 (German) or P06 (Swiss) is nonsense. The SIG P210 handgun was called P49 (swiss) and therefore should be named P49 ? P08 stands for Pistole 08 meaning that this type (Luger) was introduced in the german army in 1908 nothing more nothing less. There were 7,65mm and 9mm versions. The ammunition is called 9mm ParaBellum coming from Se Vis Pacem Para Bellum meaning Those seeking peace prepare for war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.171.1 (talk • contribs)

I think it should be renamed to Parabellum pistol since that's what the company and the designer originally called it. --Philip Laurence (talk) 18:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Support Philip you make a good pointБοņёŠɓɤĭĠ₳₯є 19:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Oppose The M14 rifle was originally concieved as the Lightweight Rifle, then the T44, then the XM14 (IIRC) and then, finally, the M14. Of those, its final designation is what we go by. Philip, your logic would have us call the M14 the Lightweight Rifle, the B-2 would be the Advanced Tactical Bomber, and Barrack Obama would be Barry Obama. In the case of the Luger, it should be something like P08 pistol or P08 Luger (as in M1 Garand) although I'm not above being convinced that the German nomenclature should weigh in the Anglophone version. --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 21:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say that. the difference being the M14 was a commissioned weapon, while the luger, if i'm not mistaken, was created by a private company. also different is the "advanced tactical bomber" was a codename and "Barry" Obama was a nickname. --Philip Laurence (talk) 21:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The point was, "P08" was the official German Army designation for the pistol. Doesn't really matter what anybody else called it, if we're settling on one article, the most prolific and official name of the pistol should stand. I understand it was a commercial success, however it was MUCH more of a military success under the P08 designation. --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 21:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but it doesn't seem neutral. P08 was just a designation of one country (the swiss called it OP00 and finland the M23). the current article name is kind of like in 100 years if the beretta 92 ends up being known as an M9. --Philip Laurence (talk) 01:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The FN FAL is called about a dozen things also, but FAL was what everybody settled on. P08 is what the country of origin that adopted it calls the rifle. We don't call the M16 the "AR-15" just because Stoner and Armalite called it that, do we? --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 12:14, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
1. that is what FN, the company that made it, called it. That is what it is universally known as, just like DWM officially named the luger the Parabellum pistole 2. again, AR-15 being the universal name that Armalite named their rifle, while M16 being a military designation. --Philip Laurence (talk) 10:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Phrase in the article

Hi:

In the final section, we begin with the phrase 'Although obsolete in many ways,' without explaining why this is so. I'm not a gun person, so I may be missing an obvious point here.

Andy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.175.167 (talk) 05:14, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it means that is obsolete compared to the type of guns produced today. Like it wouldn't be suitable for military use today, though i dont belive that statment. If you compare a Luger to a FN five seven, the Luger would look competly obselete. Well thats my answer andy, though i may be competly wrong who knows $_$BonesBrigade 05:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The .45 luger

Considering it's one of the most famous and expensive pistols of all time, I'm surprised it's not already in this article. Anyone care to draft something up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.61.223 (talk) 08:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Not the most famous or most expensive pistol of all time. Indeed, it is notable, but it's also drifting into history this being about 100 years from when it was first tested. --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 12:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)