Talk:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

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[edit] name

My understanding is that "Mies van der Rohe" is the surname. The article is inconsistent, generally using "Mies" but once using "van der Rohe", and never advising the reader which ways are correct to refer to him.

(The New York Times, in the case of IMO somewhat analogous Latin American names like Javier Pérez de Cuéllar, seems to make a point of this convention:

  • 1st reference: Javier Pérez de Cuéllar
  • 2nd: Mr. Pérez de Cuéllar
  • 3rd & subsequent: Mr. Pérez

(But they call everyone "Mr." (except, i think, mobsters who haven't yet become witnesses, and charged criminal suspects); we don't, and i think "Mr. Perez" in the Javier Pérez de Cuéllar article is a slip-up.)

Before taking a guess that "Mies" is good and "van der Rohe" is bad (despite my own impression that only "Mies van der Rohe" is correct), and fixing the article accordingly, can anyone speak to

And shouldn't our policy on such compound surnames include explicitly clarifying at least where the given-name/surname split falls? --Jerzy(t) 05:32, 2004 Apr 13 (UTC)

  • My understanding is that he was born Ludwig Mies and appended his mother's maiden name Rohe at some later date, throwing in a van der (or possibly a Van der) just for effect. So the usual rules, whatever they may be, probably don't apply. - Nunh-huh 05:42, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
    • P.S. I think he probably dropped the Ludwig about the same time? - Nunh-huh 05:45, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
      • Re dropping "Ludwig": Not to my understanding: i think treating "Mies van der Rohe" as his full name is simply a misunderstanding by people who have seen the full surname used. E.g., i think the NYT always starts with "Ludwig Mies van der Rohe" and continues with (the surname) "Mies van der Rohe". (BTW, the Mr. thing doesn't usually apply, bcz it is in the hard news portions; i think they forgo that courtesy in the arts & book reviews where he is likely to come up.) Tricky stuff in any case! --Jerzy(t) 08:06, 2004 Apr 13 (UTC)
        • People commonly refer to Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe as 'Mies' in the architectural and design fields. To ensure the context of the article is of encyclopedic quality we should refer to the subject as Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe. Mr Ash 03:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
          • William J.R. Curtis's "Modern Architecture Since 1900" refers to him as both "Mies" and "Mies van der Rohe" It seems that the longer is more common at the start of paragraphs, while the shorter is used mid-paragraph. How this applies to Wikipedia, I have no idea, but thought it was worth mentioning -- architecture student
          • I can affirm the anonymous architecture student's claim that "Mies" is by far the most common usage. It's used on plaques, etc. at IIT. Unfortunately, I won't be back there for several weeks, but if this is contentious then I'll take a picture. siafu 02:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IIT

Has anyone here ever met an IIT student? Architects treat their campus like a little bit of heaven, but IIT students, who actually have to use the place, hate it.

  • It's gotten better. The "bad things" that have been corrected were mostly due to the presence of the Green Line completely bisecting the campus. The new student center and dorms have helped that a little bit. I think if this campus was on the far north side by Evanston instead of on the south side across from Comiskey (as has been considered in the past), it wouldn't get nearly as bad a rap. ---Rob 18:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I am a current IIT student. It's true, the engineers hate it. I don't think they really hate the architecture, but most don't see what's so special about it. Rather, IIT has never done too great a job of keeping the buildings up, and so the original look and feel Mies intended, that would make the campus a beautiful place to be, are not really present. But...the new buildings have helped a lot, and the recent restorations of some of the Mies campus (ongoing) is helping to bring some of that beauty back. As an architecture student, yes, we too, treat it like a little piece of heaven, at least those of us that have some inkling of how special it is. --laldm 01:37, 28 June 2006

[edit] Category:Nazi architecture

Removed aas I think it's wrong. Any-one knows better, please put it back. Rich Farmbrough

Ludwig worked for part of his career under the Nazi's, so the 'Category:Nazi architecture' has been placed back. Endurance 13:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Is an architect who worked in the United States during the reign of George Bush to have his architecture called "Republican Architecture"? There is no logic to that. Mies was a-political and did nothing to support either the Nazis or any American administrations. "Nazi Architecture" is a specific term referring to Hitlers imperial classical style, which Mies deplored.

  • Agreed - in 1933 Mies tried to appease the Nazi hostility to the Bauhaus and moved it to Berlin - but he and the other masters voluntarily disbanded it shortly afterwards. There's no way Mies is an Albert Speer, the Nazi's deplored modernism as Degenerate Art.--Mcginnly | Natter 10:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Farnsworth house

were you aware that Dr Farnsworth sewed Mies over the house he had designed for her. She said it was unliveable, as it acted like a greenhouse. She lost, but built a big pergola onto it much to the horror of mies and his fan club.(the pergola has since been removed)

Mies sued Edith for non-payment of construction costs (he was both architect and general contractor). He won the suit and she was required to pay. She had counter-sued Mies for malpractice in the design of the house but she lost that case. The story is her affections for Mies were not returned, and their relationship soured, resulting in much unhappiness for them both, and the very bitter lawsuits. The bronze screen enclosure of the porch was actually designed by Mies to keep insects out, but installed by another architect after the lawsuits began. The second owner, Palumbo, removed the screens and later added air conditioning to deal with the insects. There were many misrepresentations made in the poular press during the lawsuit, as there was much controversy about modern architecture for residential buildings. Some hate it and some love it. Edith said she hated it but used it for many years, from 1951 till 1972. Palumbo adored the house. I think the actual market value of 7.5 million established at the 2003 public auction of the house set a record for $ per square foot for a house. Miesling 6-16-06

[edit] farnsworth flooding

The major Farnsworth floods occured in 1956 and 1996, damaging the Primavera wood core both times and breaking glass the second time. The entire core and wardrobe cabinet was rebuilt using new veneers in 1996. The 1996 restoration updated many aging components and the building was repainted. Primavera is still readily available at veneer dealers, and is grown in Mexico and other Central American countries. The wardrobe is teak. Neither are on an endangered species list. The edits made on this subject are innaccurate and will be removed unless factual information is submitted to contradict the above. Miesling 6-16-06

[edit] Categorization

Re: Architects and their nationality in Classification I think it is much more important that the architect appear first and foremost as an Architect, and secondarily as a german or american architect. If you look at the list of Architects, the most prominent ones are missing. This is plain silly. Do I have to know the nationality of an architect to find him ? I shouldn't have to. If he's an architect, he should be in that classification, period. He can also be classified as a german architect, etc., but the main classification is paramount. Intersofia 14:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library

I removed the following paragraph:

One of the best and last examples of van der Rohe's architectural roots is the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in Washington, DC. This uniquely designed main branch of the United States capital's public library system, is the only Ludwig Mies van der Rohe structure in the District of Columbia. The District's M. L. King Jr. main public library is also one of van der Rohe's last major designs and architectual tributes before his death. There is one proposal to demolish the building for condominium apartments or office space during or after 2007. Concerned District of Columbia residents are fighting to stop potential developer demolition and a proposal before the DC Council. Local DC activists and residents hope to retain the building's architectural and historical integrity, and public library purpose, at its current and very accessible downtown location. One popular idea among diverse native Washingtonians, newer residents, cultural preservationists, environmentalists, fiscal policy critics and political activists is to convert the M. L. King Jr. library's large open main floor into a major retail bookstore/café and public performance space, with the basement and upper three floors becoming a 21st century digital, research and lending library, plus a landscaped rooftop reading garden — honoring the intent of van der Rohe's original adaptable architectural space design. The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library is a unique and modern contrast to the typical classical building designs dominating America's capital city — and truly consistent with Ludwig van der Rohe's architectural personality, long term functionality, contemporary spirit, user-friendly purpose, and internationally acclaimed designs. [1]

It was under the 'Early Career' section, and being that it was his last project it hardly belongs there. It also is basicly link spam for the Library and activists trying to stop the demolition of the Library. While I can sympathize with people who do not want this gem to be torn down, this information belongs, if anywhere, on the aritlce for Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library. — Linnwood 01:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aphorisms

This sentence: "Famous for his poetic aphorisms 'Less is More' and 'God is in the details'..." seems to imply that these quotations originated from Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. But the latter quotation, while adopted by Ludwig, seems actually attributed to Le Corbusier.[2]--Will.i.am 18:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag - Hagiography

This is a hagiography that simply repeats the official line of the pro-modernist tendency without any attempt at objectivity. The intense unpopularity of his work among many people is not mentioned at all. Wimstead 14:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Then mention it. You realize this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, don't you? 76.16.55.100 20:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Citing sources. "Many people" won't do. --Concrete Cowboy 12:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Building list

The University of Chicago claims that their School of Social Services Administration was also built by van der Rohe (in 1965): http://www.ssa.uchicago.edu/aboutssa/history/tour1a.shtml -- Tfkw (talk) 17:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

No, the U. of C. claims that their SSA building was designed by Mies. Architects don't build buildings, they design them. Rick lightburn (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Tfkw, the SSA building at U of C duly added to the Mies building list. Thanks for drawing attention to that..... --Lockley (talk) 22:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif

Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] German Pronunciation

The German pronunciation given at the beginning of the article represents a distinct English accent. A correct way to pronounce it in standard German would be

[ˈluːtvɪç miːs fan deːɐ̯ ˈʁoːə]

in Unicode, but I don't know how to insert the characters using the correct font. Is there anyone who could help? Töbser 84.185.53.77 (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

And, all in all, I'm pretty sure there's a WP guideline endorsing IPA over
Pronounced "Lood-wig mees (rhymes with peace) van durr row" in America, "lood-vikh Meez fun durr raw-eh" in Germany
So somebody who knows how to enter IPA in a WP article, please do rephrase. 89.27.19.182 (talk) 05:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually the German pronounciation is more akin to "Loot-vikh Mees fun durr row-eh", i.e. "Mees" with an "s" as in "same" and "row" and is "row your boat". I'll change that on the main page. Passportguy (talk) 21:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)