Talk:Lucky Luciano
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[edit] Luciano and Lansky
At 10 years he was arrested for the first time on a count of shoplifting. During this same year he met his long time friend Meyer Lansky. Long time friends? Lansky was 5 y.o. in 1907 )) 217.197.113.45 03:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, but he is a long term friend. It's like saying you met your wife. Shes not your wife yet, but nevertheless...
Jesta510 19:36, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Luciano & Lansky II
It says that he met Lansky in 1907, but i have read in one Meyer Lanksy's Biographys that he came to America sometime between 1909 and 1911 so how did he meet Lucky Luciano in 1907
[edit] Luciano's role in Sicilian resistance during WWII
The claims that Luciano helped organize against Mussolini in Italy may be exaggerated. Lucky himself was not the one who had ties and connections with Italia, but had to go through Joe Bonanno and Joe Prefaci.
Lucky actually extorted the United States into having to deal with his mafia. The U.S. government new their docks were not secure and Lucky capitalized on this. He had a ship that was suppose to transport American troops to Europe blown up to show the government that the mafia controlled the docks. They quickly worked out a deal with the mafia and no more sabotage or strikes occurred. Later during the invasion of Sicily, whole towns fell by just going to the local godfather.
- Did he also extort the United States to use the European Mafias as anti-unionists, strike-breakers, assassins, "disappearers" of "dissidents", etc? - LamontCranston 20:14 06 Dec 2005 (UTC)
- He sure suckered 'em on the docks at home; there was no Axis effort there, 'cause FBI rounded up the agents Abwehr tried to send & the Brits controlled the would-be spymaster, Popov (Tricycle). Trekphiler 08:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
- That does not answer my question. LamontCranston 18:10, January 7 2006 (UTC)
- Under Luciano's reign, the mob used bribery to control some unions around the time of the incident on the SS Normandie. Therefore, it would be easy for the mob to persuade them to end their strikes. They weren't used as assassins by the government, nor did they arrange the disappearances of any dissidents. It was reported that our military and intelligence agencies used his Mafia connections to remove Communist influence in local governments and resistance organizations, but that's about it. User:Anonymous 12:15 AM CST, 6 May 2006.
- That does not answer my question. LamontCranston 18:10, January 7 2006 (UTC)
- He sure suckered 'em on the docks at home; there was no Axis effort there, 'cause FBI rounded up the agents Abwehr tried to send & the Brits controlled the would-be spymaster, Popov (Tricycle). Trekphiler 08:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Siegel and Lansky were known for donating money to the war against hitler and mussolini. Luciano didn't have much of an opinion, he was in jail and getting out was his only concern. After the Normandie incident the Navy Dept approached Luciano (Longshoreman had dropped his name) to help secure the NY docks. He would only help if he got to a new state pen and was allowed visstors. This was the year 1942. In 1943 the Navy department approached Luciano about helping to communicate to sicillian resistance fighters about the impending invasion. The job of the sicillian resistance (many who were mafiosi) was to secure brdges and viaducts for the quick movement of U.S troops to Palermo. These facts can be verified through Luciano's biography and Frank Costello's biography. The U.S navy has never disclosed the liaison.
Interesting to note is the speed of British and U.S troop movement through the sicillian campaign and the casualties. Letting the reader discover these facts themselves is the best way of being convinced.
Hankerchiefs dropped from U.S airplanes prior the invasion of Sicily are rumored to still exist in Sicily in the hands of the Dons that rule today, they are inscribed with a L, said to be the officiado of one Lucky Luciano. Demercurio 00:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] L.A. Confidence
I've heard Luciano had a relationship with Thelma Todd, which got her killed when she refused to let him use her club/restaurant as a base. I'd be curious to know more about bootlegging & corruption out there. It's said LAPD was the most corrupt PD in the US, & (almost?) every politician & DA was on the take. Trekphiler 07:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The LA connection with New York was through the Dragna Brothers, this was until firstly Mickey Cohen started enterprises in competition to the Sicillian brothers. Then Ben Siegeal was sent to LA because of his inability to stop doing the dirty work and manage a "crew". Prior to the unification of the so called "syndicate" in 1931 -32, a solely sicillian organisation called "Unione Sicillione" connected the "sicillian born barons" across the U.S. Luciano having direct involvement with Thelma is possible, he murdering her is unlikely, his name being used to intimidate or authorise events was possible but perilous if found out. LA was not Lucky's concern. Managing the east coast was hard enough. The 1933 election was looming and for the syndicate the democratic convention in Chicago in 1932 was their total focus.Demercurio 00:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] gangsters
Supposedly Lucky Luciano may have had some involvement with the burning of the SS Normandie ocean liner, thereby proving to authorities his authority on getting things done... Don't know if it is just a rumor.
In Lucanio's book, the Last Testament of Lucky Luciano, Luciano claims that Albert Anastasia (who was serving in the U.S Army at this time) brought this angle to Luciano's attention while he was serving in the Dannemora State Pen (a harsh place where Luciano was feeling the stress). The U.S navy's incompetency was relied upon to perpetrate the incident and their predictable behavior after the event gave Luciano he was out of Dannemora and a reliance on the syndicate to "help" out in the war.Demercurio 00:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] SS Normandie
For more information on what happened to this ship, see the entry on Albert Anastasia. User:Anonymous 12:18 AM CST, 6 May 2006
- 1942 (started at Januar) German Submarines destroyed some ships near the Eastcoast; many officials feared, there was a lot of spions working in the docks and harbours. The day the Normandie sunk, many people think in this way, an assumed an act of sabotage. But it was still an accident !!! But maybe Luciano play his cards well. --Chikago (talk) 08:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Edits
Someone with knowledge in the area should edit the WWII section... Not only is it erroneously titled (most is about Heroin traficking) but it digresses from the subject.MrPMonday 07:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
== Lucky was a numbers runner
I researched Luciano for a project in school a number of years ago, and there's a few items in the article that conflict with what I remember. I have to say that unfortunately I know longer have the paper I wrote, so I cannot cite sources, but the problems I had were...
- Lucky, a bootlegger?? In all the literature that I've read, Lucky was NOT cited as a bootlegger. His main rackets were numbers (which was a mafia ran lottery). I'm not saying that he had no business in bootlegging what so ever, but he was primarily known as a numbwers runner. I vaguely remember some quotes from Capone and other gangsters (as well as movie quotes) which Lucky is refered to as a pimp. I hope that the information in this article wasn't based on movie storylines (like the piece of shit Mobster which was grossly inaccurate). Prohibition appealed, proved to be wrong, and thus a bootlegger is less villinous than the still illegal and morely revolting prostitution racket. A pimp protagonist is far more off-putting than the bootlegger who's simply refusing to follow an unjust law.
- I'm not sure if this is a conflicting bit of information, or simply omitted. Luciano's first incounter with Bugsy was Lucky kicked the shit out of him. I don't remember exactly how the story goes, but Bugsy either refused to pay for services render by one of Lucky's girls or he was herassing one of them. Either way, Lucky beat the shit out of Bugsy. I wonder if Lucky used baby powder on the pimp slapping hand back then??
- Why is there no mention as to Lucky's name "Lucky"? There are two versions, first is that he was lucky with the cards, and second (the much cooler version) stems from an incedent that he luckily survived which his neck was severly slit (which some say caused his lazy eye which is very noticable in that first photograph in the article.
Again, this is from research I did close to 10 years ago, and I no longer have the paper nor the source materails, which is why I'm commenting here instead of trying to make changes. But please, Let me know if you have more information in these and can back me up. --Spectwon 07:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Reading about Arnold Rothstein and following the downward movement of alcohol procurement (from scotland and canada)and distribution throughout the East coast, you can see that Luciano was the number one organiser of bootlegging in New York city, better still read his book in conjunction with Meyer Lansky and Frank Costello's biography's. Pimping was what his soldiers mainly did between guarding liqour shipments and naturally they used their bosses name to exert authority. You probably couldn't earn 10 mill in one year in 1929 just pimping (nickel and dime type rackets). The pimping thing is what Dewey nailed him on, Lucky's flaw was that he did not discipline his "crew" or distance himself from the pimp racket, and captains go down with their ship. Demercurio 00:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Recent Edits
I made some changes to the information in relation to Maranzano's plot to kill Lucaiano and friends. Al Capone by historical timeline was no longer a force within the outfit. Frank Costello, a Calabrian, and Meyer Lansky, a Jew, were targeted by Maranzano on racial grounds. the multicultural aspect was one of the main reasons he hated the "young turks" and Luciano in particular. I am happy to make more amendments but will wait any possible collaboration opportunities. My sources for informtion are the biographies of Luciano, Lansky, Costello and Dutch Schultz. The Playboy Illustrated History of Organised Crime by Richard Hammer is a great read. Online you can't go past crimelibrary.com and of course the greatest resource of all - wiki. Demercurio 16:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC) ~ No offense, but if those are your sources, maybe you should let others contribute instead.
[edit] Last Testament
Luciano's (or his biographers) version of the events at Scarpato's and elsewhere, as recounted in his "Last Testament" are the definitive example of gangland history being written by the survivors. In the accounts of the death of Masseria there is never any mention of his having had any bodyguards in attendance. That he would trust Luciano so far as to travel to the seaside and dine alone with him is beyond belief. Joe the Boss would not have been sitting with Charlie Lucky in Scarpato’s completely unguarded. But wherever you read the story of his death no mention is made of the bodyguards who would surely have been present when the car containing Luciano's men pulled up across the street. Also how credible is the assertion that Ciro Terranova was driving the getaway vehicle? Masseria and Terranova were Morello vetrans and known to have a close relationship. Or that Maranzano, the architypal "Sicilian Supremacist", would entrust the job of killing his young rival to Irish loose cannon Vince Coll, rather than use his own men? It seems unlikely. It's quite possible that Maranzano, contrary to Luciano's claims, may not have been plotting his death at all at this time. Did Luciano really agree to meet Maranzano alone? or was he taken unawares and abducted? and what really happened that night out on Staten Island? However in each case Lucky Luciano is the only man who both survived to tell the tale and had the inclination to. In reading the book it is not difficult to discern that every event is slanted in order to show Luciano or his close friends in the most favourable light while the reputations of his rivals are undermined and disparaged As he neared the end of his life, the opportunity to put one over on his enemies one more time, by painting himself as America's great criminal mastermind must have amused and appealed to Lucky. And to a large extent, to date, Luciano has had his way, his was the only first hand account of events, at least until Joe Bonnano decided to follow his lead and attempt to expand his role in history with a book of his own. Seveb 05:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Flawed
- The problem is that a few of your sources were flawed. The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano has been proven to be a flase biography solely produced by the author. Which explains the inconsistencies present throughout the entire account. The main sin involved revolves around the fact that later bios reflected "facts" found in that bio and form the outright lies told by Dixie Davis and thus you have a very skewed history.. Even supposed insiders like Valachi began recountign some of the false tales told by Dixie Davis to the press. Also in the pieces you did mention, you will not find one account of Maranzano intending to kill Meyer Lanksy. And at the time of Maranzano's death Al Capone was still very much a force in the Outfit. He was still about 5 months away from being imprisoned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.252.167 (talk • contribs)
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- I agree about the bias in the biography, and it has to be taken with a view that this was Luckys chance to rewrite history. In relation to Capone, he was not a significant decision maker, St.Valentines had seen Al become too hot to handle, the real secretive mafiosi didn't want their name in the papers and steered clear of him. Al was really just living on a violent reputation at this time. Ever since his hit on Frankie Yale, the NY boys wanted little to do with him, how to get rid of him without causing a huge amount of heat was more the issue.
- It's possible that Maranzano didn't know Lansky personally but he did know that Luciano mixed with Jewish associates. Guys such as Bo Weinberg, Longy Zwillman, Waxey Gordon and of course Rothstein (who may have been killed by either Maranzano or Masseria)were known by those loyal to Maranzano to be affilliates of the young mafiosi. Maranzano was kept informed by loyal guys like Tony Bender about who the young turks mixed with and what other big city bootleggers came to town to visit.
- As for Valachi it would be like asking a doorman at the Trump Tower to comment on the life of Donald Trump.
- If you have definitive resources available, please contribute to this article, we need good contributorsm like yourself to discern legend from fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.129.47.75 (talk • contribs)
-- The best resourse is actually the www.nytimes.com They have archives that stretch back the entire existence of the paper. You'll catch little tid-bits like Lucania being on the boat with Legs Diamond when it landed in Ireland in August of 1930(which explains his absence during the majority of the wars of that period).
You also find that MadDog Coll and Dutch Schultz had zero to do with the baby killings as the one person bystanders did identify was Mike Copolla who they mistakenly said was a member of Coll's gang. His intended victimw as Anthony Strobino a convicted narcotics dealer (Not Joey Rao as many have later tried to say) and it becomes pretty clear that that incident has Luciano's hands on it, not Schutlz.
You also find that Luciano had little to do with Rothstein and at the time of Rothstein's death he was supposedly feuding with Diamond and his allies over a supposed narcotics double cross. When brought in for questioning Diamond said "Rothstein had so many enemies it could have been anyone". Though I would say Masseria and especially Maranzano are two people anyone would rule out.
ans yes Valachi can't be taken serious in regards to what he knew about the higher workings of the mob, however he has proven to be significantly more honest than Bonanno. FBI bugs had many mafia members wondering if he was senile when he wrote his book due to his revisionist history. All and all you pretty much begin to realize that the Last Testament was a hoax (the writer never could produce the supposed hours of taped convos and slowly began to back off his claims of it being an auto-bio) and a string of books that foolishly quoted it and Dixie Davis (Meyer Lansky Mogul of the Mob, Uncle Frank, Tough Jews, numerous Mafia encyclopedias, etc, etc) are works done by men too lazy to do quality research and who would rather pass on the same shotty information you find in previously released books no matter how wrong it is...
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.192.143 (talk) 17:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] 500 men
It said that he ordrered the execution of 500 men.Is this correct? The H-Man2 14:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] lucianos pizza parlor in wilmington, north carolina: stole my dam name!
yea im a luciano. and we were gonna build a pizza parlor but then this one showed up. someone ovbiously overheard us or something. and i know for a fact that its not named after lucky luciano. its just a name. and i heard the owners last name isnt even italian. so im going to have to have a talk with them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.206.252 (talk) 00:15, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
[edit] balzac quote
the quote at the end is not from Luciano its from Balzac http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Honor%C3%A9_de_Balzac please change it and if you don't believe me check with the godfather book —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.143.137.188 (talk) 23:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Charlir91's page move
This article should be located at Lucky Luciano as per WP:COMMON, this new user moved it to Charles Luciano last month with nobody agreeing, he didn't even discuss. - Animagentile (talk) 02:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Problem with bibliography entry
This seems to read too much like a book. The titles of the sections are almost annoying and show nothing as far as the stage in Luciano's life. In order for this to come off as a legit bio, something needs to be done to improve the quality of the entry. -Jabbottman (talk) 06:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
