Talk:Love hotel

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[edit] Removal of prostitution box

The "prostitution in Japan" box certainly is not irrelevant. What do you benefit from censoring the article like this? --DannyWilde 12:47, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment - While I don't doubt the link between love hotels and prostitution is a very real one, I think the statement that it is "mainly used" for purposes of prostitution needs to be sourced somewhere. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 12:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
That may have been an overreaction, since I have no proof that the main business of love hotels is prostitution. However, prior to this edit, the page actually said that the main business was catering to married couples. This is utter tosh. It might as well have said the main business was catering to leprechauns. Many of the prostitution ads around my area specifically state "hoteru", and a Google search will turn up plenty more evidence. Anyway. --DannyWilde 13:15, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't know about married necessarily, but I am, ahem, familiar with the argument that love hotels are sometimes used by steady couples as a sort of "retreat". I don't know how much hard evidence you can find for this, given the nature of the business, but it's actually a pretty popular claim: [1] [2] [3], for example. I think clientele probably depends a great deal on the area and hotel. Can the lead be reworded to reflect both realities? — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 13:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
It's true that they're used by unmarried couples, because most Japanese young people live with their parents. I doubt you'll find many married couples in them though, that is just a kind of fig leaf. I suppose the low price places are more associated with prostitution, judging from the signs all over the place, or maybe the fancy ones clean up or something. Near my house there are three of the places. I found some pages in a Google search which seemed to think that love hotels are a kind of jolly place which everyone would like built next door to their house. A lot of guide books to Japan have this kind of "jolly" feel to the discussion too. It just isn't true, most Japanese people aren't at all proud or even tolerant of love hotels, and covering up the dark side of love hotels and making them out to be "jolly" places, used by married couples, which everyone accepts with a wink and a nod, is not a good idea in my opinion. --DannyWilde 14:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Where's this "most" coming from again? Punch ファッションホテル into Google and see what you get: a ton of squeaky-clean search engines and review sites ([4] [5] [6] [7] ...) aimed at status-conscious mostly female customers looking for the perfect ending to the perfect date. Methinks you've been tripped up by the euphemism treadmill: these days ラブホ has the same connotations as "cheap motel", while ファッション・ブティックなどなど are more in line with "romantic hotel". I see Hyatt advertising packages for couples, should we engage in hand-wringing about "the dark side" because the same rooms are used by the resident prostitutes in the hotel bar?

Also, I think the married couple thing may previously have been more true, as after the war families lived in very, very crowded conditions and there was little privacy to be had. Japanese apartments are still cramped, but these days you'll be hard put to find parents and (older) kids sleeping in the same room anymore.

To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in what you think or speculate. --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
So why bother replying to me at all? Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

One more thing to consider: the article in the Japanese version, which is generally admirably frank in its discussion of sexual matters, doesn't mention prostitution at all. They even have this to say about why they exist:

Why do you think this is admirably frank? I read the article from beginning to end, and there is nothing in it which strikes me as being "admirably frank", just fairly basic information, mostly about the differences between a love hotel and a normal one. --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
The Japanese Wikipedia as a whole is admirably frank. Exhibit A. Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

「欧米には同種のものはないため、海外の雑誌記事でも日本紹介の特集の中でも取り上げられることがある。日本の狭小な住宅事情と関連させて論じられることもある。」

So the "small houses" thing comes up here too, but the article doesn't really say if it's an actual reason or just the usual reason used in foreign articles to explain it... Jpatokal 15:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

It only says that is the reason used to explain it, it says nothing about "an actual reason". --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, that would be exactly what just I said. Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone added the box back today. I'd just like to note that it wasn't me using an anonymous address. Jpatokal made a very good point on my talk page, which was that, unlike the other entries on the list, the love hotel itself is not a form of prostitution, although it may have a connection. I'm ambivalent about adding the box to the article again myself. Although there is a connection, perhaps the "love hotel" entry should be struck from the box too. I originally found the entry for esute which was suggesting that this was a form of prostitution, which isn't true at all, and I started cleaning up the box and its entries from that point of view. Anyway. --DannyWilde 04:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Love hotel architecture

It's the interior architecture/decorating that's usually famed for garishness, not the external, right? — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 00:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I know people in the Japanese construction industry who've built love hotels, and they tell me that the interiors of many of them aren't particularly garish. Anyway, the current version talks about the hotel itself being shaped like a boat. --DannyWilde 00:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I've been going out with the same japanese woman for almost 2 years and we've gone to love hotels because she (and I) lives with her parents. It wasn't a "fashion hotel", but it certainly wasn't garish, and had a real person behind a desk to pay, etc. I think this article might be making a few too many generalizations with the descriptions.

"Love hotels have multiple complex entrances ...." That photo caption seems like yet another overbroad generalization. In my (admittedly limited) experience, they have regular front entrances, nothing very complicated except (in many cases) a wall in front of the door with two ways around it, perhaps so that a couple can exit at the same time but in different directions (which doesn't amount to much cover as far as I'm concerned.) I'd go with "Some love hotels ...." Any thoughts from those with more sample experiences?

Michael Turner 11 August 2006

Most all love hotels I've seen have a front entrance for pedestrians and a back entrance for drivers. Jpatokal 04:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The fact about Nintendo

The article for Hiroshi Yamauchi implies that he (a former president of the company) once ran one BEFORE going to work for Nintendo, not that Nintendo itself once ran one. I'm inclined to believe the article on Yamayuchi is correct, but could someone else clarify the (seemingly useless) fact in this article? Evan1109

[edit] Lack of refences??

Here is one article I just read:

Not much of a reference, to be fair. Looks to me like some self-proclaimed "sex expert" discussing the best ways to make your lady happy. Not very specific to Love Hotels though. ShizuokaSensei 02:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Names

I don't know where all those alternate names for Love Hotel came from, but the only important one seems to be missing. In official, neutral descriptions of love hotels (for example in car navigation systems and some other maps), they are always called アミューズメントホテル (amusement hotels), and there are other "neutral" names used by news sources. What I'm trying to say here is that while it's fine to refer to them as love hotels in the context of this article, because that's what everyone calls them, when you're talking about the business aspect, or featuring it in a news story, proper legal names should be used. 125.205.59.205 05:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ceiling mirrors & revolving beds

According to this article [8] ceiling mirrors & revolving beds (and karaoke machines) are sometimes a feature Nil Einne 05:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

They certainly are, and some places even advertise the fact they have Playstations or Nintendo machines in each room. Playing video games is the last thing I want to be doing in a love hotel, but there you go! Anyway, it's already noted that there are various themes available, so we needn't worry about gettingtoo specific about it. ShizuokaSensei 02:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Short-stay hotels elsewhere in the world

If short-stay hotels are unconnected to love hotels, they should be made into a separate article, not deleted entirely. However, at least those in Korea and Taiwan are definitely influenced by the Japanese concept. Jpatokal 05:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In other countries

I just struck the above section. It's existence implies that the concept of short-stay hotels originated in Japan and spread across the world to other countries. As this is both false and impossible to provide any kind of case for, I've removed the section. How the Japanese system has directly impacted on other nation's short-stay hotels may be worthy of note if it can be proven and properly cited. However, merely listing what other countries call their short-stay hotels doesn't belong on this article. Implying that the idea of rented rooms to have sex in is somehow a Japanese invention which other countries copied is just plain false. ShizuokaSensei 05:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see the comment above posted immediately before yours. Also, until your own edits, the article's focus was on love hotels in general, not just those in Japan. Jpatokal 05:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
And FWIW, here's an article by a Waseda researcher on love hotels in Taiwan and Korea [9], although the focus is not on history. Jpatokal 05:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
One more: [10]. 「聞くところによると所謂「ラブホテル」という事業モデルは、日本独特のものらしい。最近は、台湾などにもラブホテルが出現し、結構、繁盛しているという。」Jpatokal 05:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Had you not just stated that the article was about short-stay hotels in general I would never have worked it out from the article itself! For an article about love hotels in general (which shouldn't be called "Love Hotels" given they are only know as such in Japan) it was very strongly focussed on Japanese hotels. If this article is purporting to be about short stay hotels in general, the entire focus needs to be shifted away from Japan. Some things are certainly unique to a Japanese shortstay hotels, but the idea that the concept itself is unique to, or native to, Japan, is of course, false. ShizuokaSensei 05:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I think, and the article cited above seems to agree, that the love hotel is a specific type of short-stay hotel that originates in Japan and has spread to Taiwan and Korea, but no further. (Definitive proof that the Japanese are involved: I've stayed in a motel in South Korea that had a vibrator vending machine next to the bed.) I can buy the argument that other short-stay hotels should be listed somewhere else, but can you suggest where that might be, instead of simply deleting information? For now, I've rescued the obviously unrelated stuff (South America, Phils etc) into a section in Motel. Jpatokal 06:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
If this article is about short stay hotels then it should be named as such. Love hotels are just one type of short stay hotel. These may contain one or two things which are unique to Japan / Asia, but otherwise they're pretty run of the mill. If this article is about short stay hotels in general as you say it is, then I suggest changing the name, generalising the information (as the majority of it is applicable to short stay hotels the world over) and retaining a sub-section for the few unique points found in Japan / Korea etc etc ShizuokaSensei 15:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It also struck me as odd that there's only a Japanese version of this article, and that Sex hotel redirects to here. Only the wasei-eigo term "love hotel" was coined in Japan, but the business model is certainly not unique or originating from Japan. I think we agree that a new short-stay hotel / sex hotel article with a global scope in mind should be added, we're just too lazy to do it. —Tokek 08:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Equipment

This famous photo is fairly conclusive proof that love hotels are, indeed, sometimes decorated with cartoon characters, decked out like SM dungeons or occasionally both at the same time. I'm not sure Sanrio would appreciate having it plastered all over WP though! Jpatokal 06:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Flicker is down at the moment, so I can't trace it back to the original, but the title of the picture is simply "Hello Kitty Room" and the summary only references a "Hotel Adns," which brings up nothing on Google. Plus, even if the picture was of a love hotel room (which it very well could be; I'd have to check Flickr once it's back up), the phrase "decked out like SM dungeons" (which isn't encyclopedic language) is misleading. The phrase implies that the hotel room would actually resemble an S&M dungeon, whereas what is depicted seems to resemble an ornamental piece in a bright pink room, very much unlike a dungeon, and is entirely unusable (there isn't even a door handle). Quetzapretzel (talk) 00:17, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm somehow reminded of the joke about the mathematician asserting that there exists at least one sheep colored black on one side...
But here is a love hotel that specializes entirely in S&M. See Gallery. Jpatokal (talk) 04:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. I guess that can be added to the article, though I dunno if it necessarily qualifies as a wikipedia-approved citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quetzapretzel (talk • contribs) 07:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording

"decked out" doesn't sound very encyclopedic to me.

[edit] Location

Although, found primarily in Japan, they are also common in countries such as South Korea where high real estate prices have consequently driven hotel rates through the sky. So I feel, we should mention it. Olkhicha appa (talk) 09:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to introduction

I've rolled back this change, not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because it's rather different from the previous consensus. Is it really accurate to say that visitors go to love hotels for "top-notch entertainment facilities such as karaoke, VOD, the latest video games, as well as 30+ inch plasma TVs" as opposed to "allowing couples privacy to have sexual intercourse"? According to previous discussions on this page, the focus of the article was pared down to the Japanese love hotel and its direct imitators, but your edits seem to overlap well with boutique hotel territory. Jpatokal (talk) 11:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)