Talk:Louis-Antoine-Henri de Bourbon-Condé, duc d'Enghien

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Date of Birth reference (This from Michael David (talk · contribs))

This date was given correctly on the year page for 1772 even before the article was created with the incorrect date! Noisy | Talk 18:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be a contradiction between the Joseph Fouche page and this page. According to the Fouche page, it was Fouche who said "It was worse than a crime; it was a mistake," while according to this page it was Talleyrand. I don't know which is correct but someone should probably figure it out.

Rhinocero 07:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I've always heard it attributed to Talleyrand. Is there a source for attributing it to Fouche? - Jmabel | Talk 01:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Antoine Boulay de la Meurthe is the author of C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute. You can refer to The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations (search "crime" here [[1]]). AldoSyrt 19:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Right. The only problem is that Bartlett's credits Fouche with the quotation and there's no reason to prefer one source to the other. I've altered the text to reflect the fact that the sources conflict. On the talk page for the Talleyrand article, an anonymous contributor says that he read it was Talleyrand who actually said it. The French Wikipedia article fr:Affaire du Duc d'Enghien attributes the quote to Boulay but, frustratingly, does not cite its source. My own view is that it is probably Boulay, for the simple reason that quotations from less famous personages are frequently attributed to more famous ones, if the quote is in character. For example, Winston Churchill is often quoted as saying the heaviest cross he had to bear in WWII was the cross of Lorraine when it was actually of of his aides that said it. This is probably the reason for the frequent attribution of the quote we are discussing to Talleyrand, as in keeping with his reputation for cynicism. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 01:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, Duff Cooper does not mention this in his biography of Talleyrand. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 03:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree your prudence. And you are right: On ne prête qu'aux riches. I was more affirmative because numerous (French) sources warn the reader that the quote is mistakenly attributed to Fouché or Talleyrand. An interesting source is 'Les citations françaises', Othon Guerlac, Librairie Armand Colin, 1931. Guerlac makes the comment (Refer to the Gilles G Jobin's Web site [[2]]):

"Mot dit par Boulay (de la Meurthe) en apprenant l'exécution du duc d'Enghien, 1804. On a attribué le mot à Fouché. Sainte-Beuve (Nouveaux Lundis, t.XII, p.52) dit : 'On m'assure que le mot a été dit en réalité par Boulay (de la Meurthe). Dudon, qui était alors auditeur du Conseil D'État, certifiait l'avoir entendu de sa bouche.' Le mot a aussi été attribué à Talleyrant. Toutefois, à en croire Sainte-Beuve, il n'aurait fait qu'utiliser le mot de Boulay de la Meurthe, après le même événement". (p. 273)

Gustave Flaubert wrote in 'Le dictionnaire des idées reçues'

"C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute." (Talleyrand.) "Il n'y a plus une seule faute à commettre." (Thiers.) Ces deux phrases doivent être articulées avec profondeur.

Since Flaubert is often quoted, this may have set things even more confused. About the cynicism of Talleyrand, he would have said about this execution: "Bah ! ce sont les affaires !" -- AldoSyrt 09:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)