Talk:Lou Gehrig

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 Lou Gehrig is currently a good article nominee. Anyone who has not contributed significantly to this article may review it according to the good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a good article, as outlined on the nominations page.

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Date: 17:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:
Lou Gehrig was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: June 7, 2007
Lou Gehrig is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
March 9, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted

An event in this article is a July 4 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

Contents

[edit] Lou and other sports

I recently found this picture of Lou Gehrig and Lester Patrick of the NY Rangers. Lou and Lester I vaguely remember reading that Lou was an avid Rangers hockey fan. Is there any evidence of this aside from this picture? Nyrmetros 00:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Continuity

The article mentions that Gehrig's wife, upon calling the Mayo clinic on or around May 2, 1939, spoke with Dr. Charles Horace Mayo (according to the link). According to the article on Dr. Mayo, he retired ten years before that date and died 24 days after it. I think it is highly unlikely that Mrs. Gehrig spoke with that Charles Mayo, or that the man—in his ailing state—“had been following Gehrig's career and his mysterious loss of strength”. The reference is probably to Charles William Mayo—the son of the aforementioned Charles Mayo, who does not as of this writing have a bibliography on Wikipedia.—Kbolino 19:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Something is wrong

"At the midpoint of the 1938 season, Gehrig's performance began to drastically diminish. At the end of that season, he said, "I tired midseason. I don't know why, but I just couldn't get going again." Eleanor was afraid it was caused by a brain tumor. Gehrig told her that he had been feeling the strength ebb away in his legs since his 30th birthday."

Could please someone please tell me what's the meaning of "ebb" in the above sentence? I'm suspecting a vandalism that was somehow missed, but I'm not a native English speaker, so I might be wrong; but if I'm not, I'm not sure what to do about it: remove it or replace with something else (but with what?) TIA! :) --Vlad|-> 15:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Ebb means to worsen or decline. Petedoane 06:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Instead of jumping to the (erroneous) conclusion of vandalism, would it not have been more appropriate to consult a dictionary before posting your comment about the word "ebb"? 130.13.1.111 (talk) 05:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)John Paul Parks130.13.1.111 (talk) 05:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

That question was asked 14 months ago and answered 12 months ago. Cool it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 07:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Distinctions

"One of only seven players (Babe Ruth, Jimmie Foxx, Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musial, and Ted Williams) (J.J.Jammer) to end their career with a mini "


This line seems like an incomplete thought, perhaps a vandalism not repaired correctly or something? Also, why must this article meet the *Living* persons biography standards? 129.53.219.20 18:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC) matt g

I fixed it. For some reason the sentence got chopped off last November. Probably an accident. Matt Deres 02:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where he lived

Why is this mentioned in the lead? Is it really that important? Quadzilla99 05:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed it. Quadzilla99 19:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

Gehrig plague and number in centerfield at Yankee Stadium.
Gehrig plague and number in centerfield at Yankee Stadium.

I found and uploaded this to Wikimedia Commons in case anyone wants to use it in this article. Quadzilla99 19:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Done, I added it. Quadzilla99 05:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American

In the photo which is him and which is Babe Ruth? The caption doesn't distinguish between them because it presupposes that the reader is American and will know one of the baseball players by sight.

Fixed. It was more obvious when the pic at the top was working. Matt Deres 23:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two identical photographs of Lou Gehrig

Lou Gehrig's article contains two identical photos. This is silly. One of the photos should be deleted.

Anthony22 18:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Agreed. I've replaced the one at the top, sorry it's not higher resolution. JGHowes 00:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Found much better pix (PD) for article lead and it's now there JGHowes talk - 00:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Green infobox?

Why is there green in the infobox? See Babe Ruth for instance. Quadzilla99 07:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I just thought it looked better, someone reverted Babe Ruth back to gray. JGHowes talk - 10:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Have changed it to comply with Wikipedia:WikiProject_Baseball_players#Templates JGHowes talk - 21:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Family

There does not seem to be much information regarding his family, including any information regarding his wife. One part of Gehrig's life that I am curious about is the fact that he never had any children. Is there any information about this?

  • I've added "They had no children" to the relevant section. JGHowes talk - 17:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA failed

I'm sorry but the article needs more citations, there are whole sections without citations see Michael Jordan or Adam Gilchrist for featured article sports bios. This shouldn't take long though since the information should probably be easy to find online. Trevor GH5 19:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

To be clear I'm not saying it should be as good as those articles since they're FAs but the referencing should be close. Trevor GH5 19:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I can see why the article might have missed the cut. There were some factual errors in the article. For example, it said that the five year waiting period was waived for Gehrig's HOF eligibility. There was no five-year eligibility rule until 1954! There wasn't even a one-year waiting period until 1946. Gehrig himself was named on 22% of the ballots in 1936, when he was still active and on the top of his game. Gehrig would almost certainly have been elected in the regular 1939 election, but the committee didn't want to rely on "almost" because Lou's time was running out and the subject of a "waiting period" was a contentious one. (Some writers enforced their own personal rule by withholding their ballots for recently retired players. Jimmy Foxx retired after the 1945 season, and was eligible in 1947, but was not elected until 1951). Fearing that Gehrig might not immediately clear the 75% hurdle, the BBWAA held a special election at the 1939 Winter Meetings in Cincinnati, specifically to elect Gehrig. Nobody else was on that ballot, and the numerical results have never been made public.

[edit] "Luckiest Man" speech

There are differing versions of this speech in some details, probably because no complete verbatim recording of the entire speech apparently now exists. This is the version from the Lou Gehrig official website, provided by his wife Eleanor. JGHowes talk - 23:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Work as a Parole Officer?

I am wondering why you have no mention of Gehrig's work after his retirement. Despite his failing health, he worked every day as a Parole Officer in New York City. He was hired by Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia. His job was to decide whether to release people who had served time for various crimes. Among his cases was Thomas Rocco Barbella who later took the name Rocky Graziano and became a famous boxer. All of this is well-documented in such Gehrig biographies as Ray Robinson's Iron Horse and Jonathan Eig's The Luckiest Man. Many observers, including these biographers, view this work as real heroism on Gehrig's part; even though he was dying, he worked for the community. He could have made much more money doing endorsements. 70.108.4.75

  • It was there, but not displaying due to a typo. It's fixed now, see "Final Years" section. Thx for pointing out this omission - you're the first to notice it was missing since August 1st! JGHowes talk - 23:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Cal Ripken

The reference to Cal Ripken needs clarification. Ripken was idle during a substantial portion of the 1994 season on account a baseball strike. In my view, that breaks his consecutive game streak. Therefore, Ripken did not break Gehrig's record, because Gehrig never took the summer off like that. 130.13.1.111 (talk) 05:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)John Paul Parks130.13.1.111 (talk) 05:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

While I must admit that I have grappled with this as well, I don't think it belongs here. It might (and I must emphasize "might") belong in the Ripken article if you can find some third party references to support that contention. The fact is: Major League Baseball fully and absolutely recognizes Ripken's record. To simply state that Ripken's record might not be legitimate, and not provide sources to show this, is a violation of WP:OR and likely violates NPOV.
Aside from that, there are things about Gehrig's record that may not pass muster: there were more than a few games where Gehrig was given a single at-bat to keep the record going (compared to Ripken, who played a substantially larger percentage of the innings of the games played). Gehrig traveled a lot less because of the nature of the schedule (and never traveled further than St. Louis). Ripken had to pay despite bouncing back from games in Seattle, Anaheim, Arlington, etc. Thus is could be argued that on a season by season basis, Ripken sawa lot more wear and tear. I'm not a gigantic Ripken fan, but I also see both sides here. I think in the end, it is a wash: both players had certain advantages and disadvantages to overcome, and each did well in overcoming them. LonelyBeacon (talk) 06:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and other than 1994, Ripken was compelled to play 8 games extra per season than Gehrig was. He played full seasons during 1983-1993, which is an extra half-season's worth of games right there. Some might argue that got him to the record sooner (the "Roger Maris argument"). I don't recall seeing anyone make any arguments about Ripken's streak, statistically, be it the 80-plus extra games or the strike. The main complaint was that he kept the streak going even if he was in a hitting slump. FYI, the IP address user made the same argument here [1] and the answer is the same. The record is whatever MLB defines it to be. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, as you infer, at a certain point, for each player, the streak took on a life of its own. Gehrig and Ripken both did whatever it took to keep the streak going. Gehrig played only 8 games in 1939, and by then couldn't hit a lick. He did the graceful thing and took himself out, rather than forcing the manager to bench him. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
It is an interesting point (made in the Ripken article, as I recall) that the Orioles refused to field a replacement team during spring 1995. The strike was settled before the regular season started, so the whole issue became moot... but if the season had started with replacements, and if the O's had used them, Ripken's streak would have come to an end. The fact that he "sat out" the last part of 1994 is irrelevant, as everyone "sat out". There were no games. Had replacements been used at any point, that would have snapped the streak. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 07:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
To put it another way, neither Ripken nor any other full-time player was "idle during the 1994 season". The season ended on August 12th. OK, that's enough of driving in tacks with a sledgehammer. d:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 07:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

John Paul Parks, Wikipedia articles do not represent the views of its editors or readers. Wikipedia articles represent facts (at least that's the idea). This is not the place for original research, it is the place for verifiable facts from reliable resources. In other words, articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.

Your view is interesting, but it is not from a reliable resource. The fact is that Major League Baseball acknowledges Cal Ripken, Jr. as the breaker of Lou Gehrig's consecutive game streak. Major League Baseball, being the official organization of Major League Baseball is a reliable resource on this issue.

That's not to say your view has no place here. If you can find a reliable resource (like essays, books, news articles from reliable writers) that support your claim, we can add that to this article.

Hope that helps, Kingturtle (talk) 14:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ejection

"Gehrig was ejected from a game, along with manager Joe McCarthy, but he had already been at bat, so he got credit for playing the game."

That would only be significant to the streak if it happened in the first inning. In what inning did it happen? Kingturtle (talk) 19:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quick good article check

Spending a brief 2 minutes to look over the article, I noticed that there are some areas of the article that needs footnotes. There should be at least one footnote at the end of each paragraph. It would help the article pass review if this issue was addressed before more formal review. Good luck.User:calbear22 (talk) 02:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice to see you again Calbear22. I will take care of this ASAP. Thanks, Milk’s Favorite Cookie (Talk) 02:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
And there are numerous non-reliable sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Name one. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 02:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • There's a problem with one of the citations added yesterday (ref #22 at the moment): the link to J.H. Davis, American Journal of Trial Advocacy has an invalidly formed URL. I'd fix it myself but a diligent search was unavailing. JGHowes talk - 21:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
There are a few other problems with the article. In the introduction, the last sentence is a viewpoint concerning is popularity and the sentence can be more neutrally stated. The opening lead would be much improved if it drew from the whole article instead of focusing only on his statistics. The part concerning the details of Ripkin's record isn't needed. The section that lists "other distinctions" is a list that should be integrated into the article.User:calbear22 (talk) 00:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Agree with you concerning the details of Ripken's streak subsequent to breaking Gehrig's record, it's now edited out. But I really don't see the last sentence of the Lead as pov or cruft. It is a factual statement that Gehrig was elected overwhelmingly in 1999 to the All-Century team. JGHowes talk - 02:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I took care of it. The problem wasn't the fact that he was elected, but what came before the sentence that part. It said, something to the effect, that Gehrig remains popular among baseball fans as evident by... I removed that part because the fact that he was elected, and received one of the highest vote totals speaks for itself. It's really sort of minor.User:calbear22 (talk) 22:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review: Hold

Several issues to address:

1. Introduction- Needs to pull more from all areas of the article. See WP:Lead.

Fixed expanded opening paragraph for more comprehensive summary/overview.

2. Some references need clean up: more citations including access date, title, etc. Some references show the web addresses. These addresses need to be linked.

3. NPOV problems throughout the article. Most obviously from using WP:Words to avoid but also from some adjectives. WP:NPOV#Let_the_facts_speak_for_themselves needs to be addressed throughout the article.

4. Layout: The section "other distinctions" should be integrated into the article or changed into a paragraph of some sort. See WP:Embedded list.

I'm also going to ask for a second opinion. I'm not sure if the large number of quotes in the article, the largely statistical nature of the Major League Baseball career section works, or the large amount of detail given to certain sentimental events in Gehrig's career is okay.User:calbear22 (talk) 17:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

For Good Article status, I believe that the article summarizes Gehrig's career well. In many articles on athletes, much of the information is statistical, and I have never seen this considered a problem. As for the sentimental events, they are how Gehrig is best remembered, so I don't see that the discussion is a problem. I hope this helps. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for checking. That sounds fine with me, so the other issues 1-4 just need to be addressed.User:calbear22 (talk) 17:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I've reworded the Lead, per above JGHowes talk - 05:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update GA review

  1. 4 was completed, but 1-3 still need to be addressed.User:calbear22 (talk) 21:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I also feel the need to mention that Image:Babelou.jpg and Image:Gehrig time.jpg do not have proper fair use rationales (they have boilerplate templates, but these specifically state that a fair use rationale template is also needed), and I don't believe that either is small enough to be considered low resolution (certainly not Babelou.jpg). GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I've addressed the Lead (#1, above) and incorporated appropriate FURs for these images. As to the size, they are cropped and do meet NFCC size limit < 600px. JGHowes talk - 05:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)