Talk:London, Midland and Scottish Railway

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Some named expresses I can think of are:

  • Devonian, which ran from Bradford (I think) to Bristol (and not to Devon!)
    • See this article where there is a splendid photo of a train on this service - and it was from Bradford, and it did run to Devon (seems little point in calling it the Devonian otherwise) Peter Shearan 13:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Palatine mentioned under Midland Main Line
  • Peaks ditto
  • Thames-Clyde Express. I'm not sure if this was named in LMS days. I believe it ran down the Erewash valley rather than through Derby
    • It certainly was! I have Alan Anderson's book (undated) which sets out the whole journey: St Pancras-Leicester-Sheffiel-Leeds-Settle-Carlisle-Glasgow St Enoch, 427 miles (683km in new money!)Peter Shearan 13:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Pines. This ran from Bournemouth on the old LSWR lines to Bath Green Park and joined the northbound LMS from Bristol at Mangotsfield. It went on through Birmingham to Manchester.
  • Master Cutler I'm not sure if this was an LMS express, but a BR one


Perhaps someone would like to carry this on

The Master Cutler ran on the Great Central Railway, which became part of the LNER, not LMS. -- Tivedshambo (talk) 17:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The Master Cutler was a GN and GC joint Pullman that ran from Sheffield Victoria to London Kings Cross via Retford. It only moved to ex-LMS metals after the run down of services from Sheffield Victoria in the 1960s. Also, the Pines was one of those trains that used to split repeatedly - during winter months it had portions that went to Leeds, Bradford (split at Birmingham and again at Sheffield) and Manchester, Liverpool (split at Crewe). During the summer they ran as completely separate trains due to the extra demand with the Pines being the Manchester train. BaseTurnComplete 10:16, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

There is the present day Master Cutler also the Robin Hood and the Midland Express run by Midland Mainline Chevin 09:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the Devonian ran to Paignton in the Summer. Certainly there were many "Summer Specials".

The Pines had a long and varied history. In 1958-9 I used to catch it at Bath Green Park and change to the Devonian at Gloucester for Derby. The only things that stayed the same were that it started in Bournemouth and ended at Manchester. There is a book about it Austin, S., (1998) Portrait of the Pines Express, Ian Allan Publishing.Chevin 17:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

There was also the Waverley which I believe ran from London via Corby and Manton Junction to Nottingham and Edinburgh. Chevin 09:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

There was a Thames-Forth express too, like the Clyde but to Edinburgh. I have a feeling that this went via Nottingham too.BaseTurnComplete 16:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Named trains (not just expresses?)

If you look at this article you will find a huge quantity of them. They cover all the railways of course, but this is better than trying to use one's memory ... Peter Shearan 13:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't there a proposal somewhere for a page on named trains, or perhaps just a category?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Chevin (talk • contribs) 08:30, 22 August 2006
Try Category:Named passenger trains of the United Kingdom... EdJogg 21:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


Yes, C J Allen produced a book called Titled Trains of Great Britain. It's referred to on the cross referenced page. Further information though follows.

The Thames Forth was named in 1927, but the name was never used after the war. The Waverley was the BR version. Both ran via the Waverley route north of Carlisle. They normally went via Nottingham and Trowell, rather than Leicester and Trent, but this was never something that was invariably consistent from one timetable to another, or even necessarily between up and down versions of the same working.

The West Coast mainline had quite a few named trains on it. I don't think the LNWR had any official names. Most names date from the LMS or BR periods. Apart from the Royal Scot, there was the Mid Day Scot, known unofficially by the LNWR as the Corridor, the Coronation Scot (streamlined), a Night Scot, the Irish Mail, the Comet, the Lakes Express the Merseyside Express etc etc. Post war the Coronation Scot was never reintroduced. For one thing, the LMS streamliners had their streamlining removed in the 1940s. However in the late 1950s before work started on electrification and everything slowed down, there was a flyer called the Caledonian worked by a Duchess with a limited rake of coaches.

There were also Club trains from Manchester, and named trains in Scotland, including at one time an Orcadian on the Far North line.

The Peak Express only existed before 1939. The Palatine was reintroduced in the 1950s, but applied to different workings. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, there was also a Midland Pullman, a sort of precursor of an HST that ran between St Pancras and Manchester. The set also did an intermediate run from St Pancras to Nottingham and back.

The Devonian ran for at least part of the year as far as Paignton which is in Devon. Browne-Windsor 14:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] London Midland?

Someone has added a note under the heading "Resurrection" suggesting the new company London Midland is a reincarnation of the LMS. I hardly think so but do others agree? Chevin (talk) 17:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree with you. The LMS was an integrated railway that owned the track, stations, trains and staff. LM is merely a franchise to run train services. Perhaps the title should be Reuse of the name London Midland - if the text is considered worthy to remain.Pyrotec (talk) 17:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Well yes, but, even then, it it's only a small part of the LMS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chevin (talk • contribs) 09:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I entirely agree. "London Midland" has as much connection with the original LMS, or for that matter its constituents, as Great Western Radio, the Swindon and Wiltshire station, has with the real GWR. Browne-Windsor —Preceding comment was added at 07:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion on format and push for GA status

Please note that there is an ongoing discussion on this article and articles on the other "Big Four" pre-nationalisation companies here. Contributions to the discussion are welcomed. ColourSarge (talk) 19:06, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Further reference material for future use

I invite anyone to put details of potential reference sources here, to be used in the future push for GA status for this article.

For my part I have come across this [1] very entertaining site, which seems to have numerous links to other related sites. Not sure if the actual site linked to there is admissable though as it is an amateur reconstruction of what the LMS website might have looked like had the internet been around in the 1930s! Certainly an interesting thought! ColourSarge (talk) 00:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)