User talk:Lokal_Profil

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[edit] Sakha Republic

I have replied on the WikiProject's talk page. Please let me know if you need anything else. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

...and after having looked at your user page I immediately realized that you probably don't speak Russian, so a link to a Russian law in Russian is probably not very helpful :) I can translate the pertinent paragraphs for you, unless you can find this document in English. Please let me know.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Alright, here we go. By the way, thanks for working on this! The subject of Russian time zones has been on my to-do list for, oh well, two years at least, and it'll be really nice if you happen to take care of it before I do :)

Please note that the law describes the borders using the terminology current as of December 1, 1991.

...
The border between the 7th and the 8th time zones goes along the 112°30' E meridian towards the coast of the Taymyr Peninsula, then along its eastern coast, around Bolshoy Begichev Island (from the west), towards the border between Krasnoyarsk Krai and Yakutia (Sakha) SSR. Then the border goes between Krasnoyarsk Krai and Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Irkutsk Oblast and Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Irkutsk Oblast and Chita Oblast, between Buryat SSR and Chita Oblast.

The border between the 8th and the 9th time zones goes along the 127°30' E meridian towards the delta of the Lena River, around its eastern coasts, along the coast of the Bykovsky Peninsula, then eastwards along the coast of Buor-Khaya Bay towards the border between Bulunsky and Ust-Yansky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR.

Then the border goes between Bulunsky and Ust-Yansky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Bulunsky and Verkhoyansky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Zhigansky and Verkhoyansky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Kobyaysky and Verkhoyansky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Kobyaysky and Tomponsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Alexeyevsky and Tomponsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Alexeyevsky and Ust-Maysky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Churapchinsky and Ust-Maysky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Amginsky and Ust-Maysky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Aldansky and Ust-Maysky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Aldansky District of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR and Khabarovsk Krai, between Amur Oblast and Khabarovsk Krai.

The border between the 9th and 10th time zones goes along the 142°30' E meridian towards the New Siberian Islands, then around them from the east, then towards the same meridian and along it due south to the Great Lyakhovsky Island. After going around this island from the east, the border goes southwards along the 142°30' E meridian to the southern coast of the Laptev Strait and then turns east towards the border between Ust-Yansky and Allaikhovsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR.

Then the border goes between Ust-Yansky and Allaikhovsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Ust-Yansky and Abyysky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Ust-Yansky and Momsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Tomponsky and Momsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Tomponsky and Oymyakonsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Ust-Maysky and Oymyakonsky Districts of the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR, between Khabarovsk Krai and Magadan Oblast to the area of its Sea of Okhotsk access, after which it turns westwards and goes along the coast towards the 142°30' E meridian, then along this meridian due south to the northern point of the Sakhalin Island, turning around it from the west, then goes along the coast to the southern point of the island, thus including Sakhalin Oblast in the 10th time zone.

The border between the 10th and 11th time zones goes along the 157°30' E meridian towards the coast of the East Siberian Sea, then in the south-eastern direction along the coast of the East Siberian Sea towards the border between the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR and Magadan Oblast. Then the border goes between the Yakutia (Sakha) SSR and Chukotka Autonomous Okrug of Magadan Oblast, between Srednekansky District and Chukotka Autonomous Okrug of Magadan Oblast, between Severo-Evenkiysky District and Chukotka Autonomous Okrug of Magadan Oblast, between Severo-Evenkiysky District of Magadan Oblast and Kamchatka Oblast towards Penzhinskaya Bay, along the coast of the Taygonos Peninsula and Gizhiginskaya Bay towards the 157°30' E meridian, then along that meridian due south towards the Kamchatka Peninsula, then around it along its western coast, then towards Cape Lopatka, turning north-east and going towards the 157°30' E meridian and then along it southwards to the borders of the territorial waters of the Russian Federation.

...

—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

OK. Firstly wow, that is probably the moste detailed description I've seen =). I've followed the borders in the description and they mostly follow the ones I had. I've put the parts that have given me problems in bold.
  • The first problem is that on my Sakha Ulus map (Image:Sakha administrative divisions.PNG Zhigansky does not border Verkhoyansky instead it borders Eveno-Bytantaysky, I'm getting the impression that Eveno-Bytantaysky used to be part of Verkhoyansky which would put the border between Zhigansky and Eveno-Bytantaysky instead (in agreement with previous "guesswork"). But confirmation would be appreciated.
  • Figured out that Alexeyevsky was renamed Tattinsky but the above description does not specify which way around Ust-Aldanski the zone goes. I'm guessing the border goes to the east of Ust-Aldanski but any info about which ulus Ust-Aldanski was broken out of would be useful and should solve the problem. The description puts Alexeyevsky/Tattinsky in zone 7 rather then zone 8 (my previous "guess") which seems to disagree with [1]. Whether this is due to a later update or inacuracies in the map I don't know, do the amendments mention it? For now I'll trust the above description over the map.
  • The last problem is Sakhalin Island and hence Sakhalin Oblast. Every map I've seen puts Sakhalina Island in the 9th zone and splitting Sakhalina oblast in two zones. Could this be a later update? Might there be info on their homepage?
Lastly thanks again. Although only one ulus has been moved I now feel a lot more sure about the map. Once I get the last details (above) sorted I'll try to integrate my Sakha republic map with the Russia map and then upload it. By the way found a map illustrating Bykovsky Peninsula and Buor-Khaya Bay. /Lokal_Profil 20:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for not researching this more thoroughly before posting; I did indeed miss a few details and failed to disclose one very important caveat (more on that below). First of all, while the law claims to be using the administrative-territorial structure as of 12/1/91, it clearly uses older data.
  • Eveno-Bytantaysky District, for example, was split in 1989 from Zhigansky District; as you correctly assumed. How this affected the time zones, I don't know for sure (not without further research anyway), but I assume that since the law treats Zhigansky District as an entity within its old borders, then Eveno-Bytantaysky District should be in the same time zone with it. I'll see if I can find anything more definite, though.
  • Yes, Alexeyevsky was renamed Tattinsky in 1990. I don't know why Ust-Aldansky is skipped, though. It's been around since 1930, so that must have been an oversight. I would guess that the time zone border goes around it from the east (my gut feeling is that the law skips just one segment, not six, which it would if it went around Ust-Aldansky along its western borders).
  • The amendments to the law did not change anything in the passage I translated. I don't have the text of the amendments themselves, but I do have a copy of the law which has the affected passages marked. By the way, I couldn't make head or tails of this map you mentioned—did you superimpose it over a map which shows ulus borders in order to figure out in which time zone Tattinsky would lie? In any case, considering this, the source can hardly qualify as reliable; it seems to be a one-man project. I'd go with the law, warts and all :)
  • Finally, here is the main caveat (which also addresses your question regarding Sakhalin Oblast). The law I translated for you is meant to describe the time zones of Russia, but what it does not describe so well is the actual time observed by the federal subjects. Federal subjects may petition the federal government to amend what time is actually observed on their territories, but those petitions, even when granted, do not lead to any changes in this law. In other words, while the federal subjects are assigned to certain time zones, they may observe time different from that of the time zone they are assigned to. A bunch of federal subjects in the third time zone, for example, actually observe Moscow Time, several federal subjects observe Omsk Time even though they lie in a different time zone, and so on. In Sakhalin Oblast, the inhabitants of the Kuril Islands petitioned the authorities to allow them observing time which is one hour different from that observed by the rest of the Oblast (news). Now, whether this is the case for some of Sakha's uluses I don't know. Sakha's legislation, unfortunately, is by far the worst organized and worded of all Russian federal subjects except for maybe Chechnya. I'll certainly try to locate something, but I can't guarantee any success. I just hope this revelation won't deter you from creating your otherwise very useful and illustrative map. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of practical applications, here is the break-down of the Sakha uluses as used for the purposes of the Unified State Exam. According to this, 10th time zone includes Verkhoyansky, Tomponsky, Ust-Maysky, and Ust-Yansky Uluses, 11th time zone—Abyysky, Allaikhovsky, Verkhnekolymsky, Momsky, Nizhnekolymsky, Oymyakonsky, and Srednekolymsky Uluses, and everything else belongs to the 9th time zone. The document is dated 2006.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 01:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Dammit... that places Eveno-Bytantaysky in 9+ rather then 10+ which means that I'll have to correct the map. Also now after all our work I found [2] which has the Sakha ulus but doesn't seem to be that sure about the rest. Anyhow there is a map now and I'll fix it for Eveno-Bytantaysky. Also I'll up a svg version of the final map of the time zones within the Sakha Republic. /Lokal_Profil 01:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The main map has been updated to take Eveno-Bytantaysky in 9+ into account, went quick actually. Also updated the (png) Sakha map. Once again many thanks =). /Lokal_Profil 02:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
No, thank you for putting so much effort and for producing a useful map :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
And I just realised I ended up puting the westernmost part of Sakha in Irkutsk TZ rather then Yakutsk.. oups... interesting how one can miss the most obvious things when tired =). Noticed it when I produced a new set of maps. /Lokal_Profil 19:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] favor

I do want to thank you for the work you've put into the maps at the Graphics Lab the last two days. Please do me a favor. Please use the rectangular style you did for Image:BlankMap-Americas.svg that you created, and center it on 162 east, so the Pacific map is a rectangle, not an oval. Image:BlankMap-Americas.svg is perfectly what we have in mind, and I would very much appreciate it. Thank you! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 03:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. /Lokal_Profil 19:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Thanks, I appreciate it, and I will from now on ;) -- Cradel 22:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Koosh ball

Thanks for the reminder! I've added the resloved tag to the request. TIM KLOSKE|TALK 01:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)