Talk:Local government in Northern Ireland

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[edit] Disambigs

Disambigs definitely needed (all connecting articles need to be re-titled) as follows:

• Antrim Borough Council
• Ards Borough Council
• Armagh City and District Council
• Ballymena Borough Council
• Ballymoney Borough Council
• Banbridge District Council
• Belfast City Council
• Carrickfergus Borough Council
• Castlereagh Borough Council
• Coleraine Borough Council
• Cookstown District Council
• Craigavon Borough Council
• Derry City Council
• Down District Council
• Dungannon and South Tyrone Borough Council
• Fermanagh District Council
• Larne Borough Council
• Limavady Borough Council
• Lisburn City Council
• Magherafelt District Council
• Moyle District Council
• Newry and Mourne District Council
• Newtownabbey Borough Council
• North Down Borough Council
• Omagh District Council
• Strabane District Council

See OnlineNI Local Council Websites

Don't know how to change titles of articles accordingly. Help anyone? Ardfern 18:19, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Disambigs possibly needed

• Antrim -> "Borough Council"
• Armagh -> "City and District Council" -> argh, another St Albans
• Ballymena -> "Borough Council"
• Ballymoney -> "Borough Council"
• Banbridge -> "District Council"
• Carrickfergus -> "Borough Council"
• Coleraine -> "Borough Council"
• Cookstown -> "District Council"
• Derry -> "City Council". The local government area is still formally called the "City of Londonderry" even though the council calls itself "Derry City Council". argh.
• Larne -> "Borough Council"
• Limavady -> "Borough Council"
• Lisburn -> "City Council"
• Magherafelt -> "District Council"
• Moyle -> "District Council"
• Omagh -> "District Council"
• Strabane -> "District Council"

Not sure

• Castlereagh -> "Borough Council"
• Newtownabbey -> "Borough Council"

Done/not needed

• Ards -> "Borough Council"
• Belfast -> "City Council"
• Craigavon -> "Borough Council"
• Down (district) -> "District Council"
• Dungannon and South Tyrone -> "Borough Council"
• Fermanagh (district) -> "District Council"
• Newry and Mourne -> "District Council"
• North Down -> "Borough Council"

Morwen 18:27, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Page move from Local Councils in Northern Ireland to Districts in Northern Ireland

Legally all of these are district councils [1], in the same way as City of Westminster is a London borough council. So I am being bold and moving the page back. --Henrygb 21:42, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Do we really need to repeat the word "Council" 26 times in the table? Morwen - Talk 09:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point, its too much. Djegan 18:05, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I think we do as they are not boroughs but borough councils etc. See [2] or how they are listed locally. --Henrygb 22:33, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

They are both. The boroughs are the physical territory. The borough councils are corporate bodies consisting of a group of people. The map does not illustrate the people, it illustrates the territory. I realise that local usage is somewhat confused here, but it has not reached the stage of Australia. In any case, reverting back to a badly laid out page doesn't help - perhaps you could revert yourself and add a clarification note. Morwen - Talk 23:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

The physical territory is a district council area. The names of the councils are decided by the council, but the status (i.e. district) is decided nationally. Some of the councils have chosen to use City where the area or part of it has a suitable charter. --Henrygb 15:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

No, the phyiscal territory is a 'district'. "district council area" is a tautology. If you look at [3] their full name is "local government district". [4] , passed a whole year later, provides for the districts to have district councils, and allows them to also be boroughs at the same time as being districts. Again, I see no value in repeating the word "Council" 26 times, it makes the table looks awful. Morwen - Talk 21:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Particularly odd language on say, Antrim Borough Council, too : "The Antrim Borough Council area consists of three electoral areas". "Antrim Borough Council area"??? What's wrong with "the Antrim Borough"? We might as well say "The Antrim Borough Council area Council area Council area". ;) Morwen - Talk 23:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I see little wrong with the current description, though you might prefer "Elections to Antrim Borough Council are based on three areas": the area is a district not a borough, its district council happens to called Antrim Borough Council. And areas can be made up of areas: the electoral areas are made up of further areas called wards: in Northern ireland under STV councillors represent groups of wards not single wards. --Henrygb 15:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

area is a district not a borough is simply not true. If you read the operative statute, you'll note it talks about 'designation of a district as a borough' and suchforth. Certainly, it remains a district also, just like the English non-metropolitan boroughs are at the same time English non-metropolitan districts. Morwen - Talk 21:18, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I think Morwen has made a good case for the removal of council - 26 times is just over the top and very cluttered. If someone wants to know the full legal name it is clearly given in each article. Terms like "county", "council" and "city of" are largely incidental but we dont need to repeat them in a table for 100% of the entries. Djegan 21:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

If the way I've put it at the moment isn't adequate, we could have dagger signs and stuff to indicate which has a District Council, which has a Borough Council, which has a City Council, etc - like non-metropolitan counties of England indicates unitary authorities and metropolitan counties. That would allow the names to keep on the same screen with the map, but also provide information. Morwen - Talk 21:27, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I have been monitoring the page, and not felt overly inclined to put in my opinion, but i have decided to be bold and come up with a better map and district listing. This is not final and i am not planing on putting it into the article until i get some feedback, even then, i was thinking of putting it into the article as an editable subpage of the article, similar to a template but not.

Councils	Map
Antrim † Ards † Armagh ‡ Ballymena † Ballymoney † Banbridge ‡ Belfast ~ Carrickfergus † Castlereagh † Coleraine † Cookstown ‡ Craigavon † Derry ~ Down ‡ Dungannon and South Tyrone ‡ Fermanagh ‡ Larne † Limavady † Lisburn ~ Magherafelt ‡ Moyle ‡ Newry and Mourne ‡ Newtownabbey † North Down † Omagh ‡ Strabane ‡
† = Borough | ~ = City | ‡ = District

--Boothy443 | trácht ar 22:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Personally I prefer the use of city, borough, district etc as this identifier can be important and I believe should be included in any link so that for anyone reading it is immediately apparent and a key is not neccessary, for instance, link [[Antrim Borough Council|Antrim Borough]]". Djegan 23:07, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Agree, i think it might look better as well

Councils

Map

Antrim Borough Ards Borough Armagh City and District Ballymena Borough Ballymoney Borough Banbridge District Belfast City Carrickfergus Borough Castlereagh Borough Coleraine Borough Cookstown District Craigavon Borough Derry City Down District Dungannon and South Tyrone Borough Fermanagh District Larne Borough Limavady Borough Lisburn City Magherafelt District Moyle District Newry and Mourne Newtownabbey Borough North Down Borough Omagh District Strabane District

--Boothy443 | trácht ar 23:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I already tried the bottom one, but it was reverted! Morwen - Talk 09:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Really, when was this. They way i see it unless some one says something anlong the line of having a strong opinion that not in favor of the new look, then on Wed i am going to go ahead and put it inm using the second format, and after that they will just have to say something here. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 10:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

A few days ago - look at the page history. I like the way it is now (with just the names of the districts), and Henrygb doesn't seem to be actively upset about it, so let's just keep it the way it is now? Morwen - Talk 15:02, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I can live with just the names of the districts without further description - that is how they often appear in offical statistics lists, such as page 12 of [5]. --Henrygb 22:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)