Talk:Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889

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I see you beat me to taking out the "administrative" couny reference. I'm wondering about what to do with the Administrative_counties_of_Scotland page? (q.v.) Lozleader 08:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Effective date(s) of boundary changes

This statement is curious:

Changes to county boundaries made by the commissioners came into effect on April 1, 1891.

I am now reading a book by the first secretary to the commissioners. The book details a host of changes, county by county, but it seems the commisioners work was still in progress (with a new secretary) when the book was published, in 1892.
Also, I note that it seems the Secretary for Scotland was given greater powers than the commissioners re boundary changes, and I imagine there were various boundary changes long after the work of the commissioners was completed.
Laurel Bush 18:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC).

According to the Act, the Commissioners powers began immediately after the first election of county councillors (February 1890, according to The Times) and were to be exercised within two years. Lozleader 18:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Can't get into VoB at the minute, but it lists various boundary changes under each county Lozleader 18:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That book, by the way: Boundaries of Counties and Parishes in Scotland, Hay Shennan, 1892. Laurel Bush 09:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC).

That's the main source for boundary changes in VoB (which I can access today), for instance [1]. There were of course many changes after the boundary commission were wound up, not least being the establishment and/or extension of counties of cities. Another fairly major change was the annexation of the Burgh of Maxwelltown in Kirkcudbright by the Royal Burgh of Dumfries c 1931 Lozleader 16:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. I believe it was seeing the site you refer to which prompted me to get hold of a copy of the actual book, from the National Library for Scotland, via my own local library.
Shennan refers to section 49 as defining commissioners' powers re boundaries, and section 51 as defining similar (but less constrained) powers of the Secretary for Scotland. It seems, however, that the Secretary for Scotland was not expected to use his powers before expiry of the commissioners' powers.
Sennan includes drafts of orders which the commissioners had not actually made when he decided to publish the book. These drafts concerned (1) the parishes Canongate, City of Edinburgh, St Cuthberts and South Leith, (2) the counties Lanark and Renfrew and the burghs City of Glasgow and Renfrew, and (3) the counties Aberdeen and Kincardine and the parishes Maryculter and Peterculter, orders to become effective 15 May 1892. Also, Shennan indicates options for orders in consequence of the City of Aberdeen Act 1891.
It is my impression, from Shennan, that all the commissioners orders became fully effective on 15 May 1892 (but that seems to have been a future date when Shennan published). For one purpose, defined by the Regisration of Certain Writs (Scotland) Act 1891, the effectiveness of all orders was delayed until 15 may 1892. For most purposes, most orders came into effect on 15 May 1891.
Laurel Bush 09:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

Another point. Shennan says that some parishes were left divided between counties because, in the view of the commissioners, to do otherwise required the creation of new parishes, something the commissioners were not empowered to do. (The Secretary for Scotland, however, was so empowered). Laurel Bush 10:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

I have just read VoB on Caithness. Shennan contradicts re boundary changes. The VoB page says "no changes". Shennan reproduces orders concerning the parishes of Reay (which straddled the boundary with Sutherland prior to changes), Thurso and Halkirk. Laurel Bush 11:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

Hmmm. I wonder if the changes were listed in the census reports? the commissioners wwere appointed "as far as expedient for the purpose of regulating the boundary of counties, and making the boundaries of burghs and parishes coincide with those of counties, and for dealing with detached parts of counties or parishes". The Secretary for Scotland's powers began after the expiry of the term of the commissioners. He could act on the representation of a county or town council, and could provide by order to a) alter the number of councillors or electoral districts, b) alter the boundary off a county, c) alter the boundaries of burghs and parishes, d) unite parishes and annex parts of parishes, and e) divide parishes.

Lozleader 11:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. Maybe I have just figured the focus of VoB - one which ignores changes to parish boundaries, unless they involve, also, changes to county boundaries. Part of one (mainly) Caithness parish was attatched to a Sutherland parish and part of a second Caithness parish was attatched to a third, but there was no change to the county boundary. And I think Shennan's main gripe about powers (as a former secretary to the commission) was that the commission could not create new parishes, but the Secretary for Scotland could. And, yes, Shennan does admit that the Secretary for Scotland needed a request from a local council before he was able to exercise his powers. Re census reports - boundary changes would have been effect for this purpose, but I do not suppose there was a requirement for reporters to list or describe them in their next report. Laurel Bush 13:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC).