Talk:Lists of American Jews

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Articles for deletion
This page was previously nominated for deletion. Please see prior discussion(s) before considering re-nomination:
  • Speedy Keep, 18 November 2005 AfD#1
  • Keep, 26 November 2005, AfD#2
  • Speedy Keep, 5 July 2006, AfD#3
  • Nomination Withdrawn, 12 September 2007, AfD#4

Contents

[edit] Concerning Edits

User: 141.151.182.70 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) is removing the Category Jewish Americans from hundreds of Wikipedia entries.

do you not understand categories and how they work in hierarchies?
I'm no sure what you are saying, but if you review the contributions you will see that it is clearly vandalism.
  • Holy crap, is that me doing that? Man I apologize and will try to fix that. I was concerned that a number of autobiographies use the term Jewish American in the first line of the article which appears to be incorrect usage. They are Americans first and of Jewish decent second, right? If people want to have these individuals categorized as Jewish Americans, I don't want to mess that up, was more concerned with standard biographical refference.Thanks!!68.99.154.144 03:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Never mind, I wasn't removing people from this category.68.99.154.144 03:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Film directors

Always happy to provide evidence: (all of these were listed on Jewhoo!, btw, which is 100% accurate)

Darren Aronofsky - "Raised in a Conservative Jewish household in Brighton Beach, Darren Aronofsky attended Hebrew school ..." www.tribute.ca/bio.asp?id=5422 Where did you see that only his father is Jewish?

Cecille B. DeMille - "Christian (Episcopalian) lay minister father, Henry Churchill DeMille (DeMille and Hayne, 1960, 12-13) and a (Sephardic) Jewish mother..." "although he firmly identified himself as a Christian, he was proud of his Jewish heritage. " www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/art6-schildkraut-print.html

John Frankenheimer - "John Frankenheimer was born in New York, as the son of Walter Frankenheimer, a German-Jewish stockbroker, and Helen (Sheedy) Frankenheimer, an Irish Catholic." http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/jfrank.htm

Michael Mann - " Oscar in acting, four flicks directed by Jews produced acting nominees this.... Michael Mann (Jamie Foxx, "Collateral"); and " http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0205/jewz_in_the_newz.php3 (written by Nate Bloom, the editor of Jewhoo, 100% reliable)

Alan J. Pakula - "Alan J. Pakula was the son of a Polish-Jewish immigrant who ran a printing business" http://www.tnt.tv/title/0,,18773-2626,00.html

I know Frankenheimer and DeMille weren't raised Jewish but they are listed here for completion anyway.

To User 70.19.65.110

Obviously you do not have very accurate information if you think Cyd Charrise was Jewish and that Sean-Flynn Amir is Jane Seymour's son.

Charisse was not Jewish at all and Amir is the son of an Israeli father and a woman who is Erol Flynn's daughter. Jane Seymour is half Jewish, btw. But never mind that. Cornel Wilde was married in a Catholic ceremony because his wife was a devout Catholic, but he was Jewish and raised Jewish and never converted, etc. etc. I can continue with the rest of the actors but my space should be limited.

Now - Wikipedia aims to take the broadest view and these lists are not dictated by any form of Jewish religious law. If we did that then these lists would be, in essence, biased. Not every single Jewish person and certainly not every non-Jew accepts Jewish religious law (the whole Jewish mother thing). Many sects of Judaism have different view points on that subject too (some consider only people with a Jewish father to be Jewish).

Of course, ignoring that, "Jewish" is also very much an ethnicity and these lists aim to reflect that as well.

And yes, for example, Kevin Kline and Jerry Orbach were raised Catholic but both have Jewish fathers, and both (or Kline at least) have expressed identification as Jewish as well.

In the cultural melting pot that is today's America many have varied backgrounds and these lists should reflect that. Thus Kevin Kline can be listed under Famous Catholics, Famous Irish (his mother's ancestry), and indeed Famous Jews (his father's).

All of the people you attempted to delete are at least part Jewish and most, if not all, identify as Jewish ethnically if not religiously. If you want links proving every one give me a list of names and I will provide you with a link. But you can't go on enforcing the "Jewish mother" rule since Wikipedia is not run from a distinct religious viewpoint, obviously. Frankly if you keep deleting them I will just keep restoring them and that is counter-productive.

Wikipedia should aim to provide the fullest information available and let the visitor decide what they think. Someone like you may think these people aren't "Jewish" in your sense of that word, but others may differ on that opinion.

-User 24.141.149.226, July 30, 2005


[edit] Proposal for list inclusion

I have made the following proposal regarding the criteria for inclusion for these lists. If this is something that you have comments or ideas about, please provide feedback. Thanks. Wikibofh 9 July 2005 19:12 (UTC)

[edit] use this

http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0803/jpn0803j.htm

[edit] My dad isn't listed here

This should really be "List of Famous Jewish Americans," since it obviously isn't a list of all Jewish Americans.

Citizen Premier 21:59, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Should Mili Avital be here?

I was under the impression that Mili Avital is an Israeli citizen, who just works in the United States. If this is right, should she be in a list of Jewish Americans if she isn’t an American citizen?

Philip Stevens 16:53, 10 October 2005

I think she may have married an American, which pretty much makes her a citizen, I believe. 00:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Not quite. If you marry a US citizen there is an immigrant "visa immediately available" for you and your unmarried children under 21, which means you are eligible to apply for permanent residence. Once you have obtained residency status you are eligible to apply for citizenship in 3 years. However you are not considered by the US government to actually be a resident or citizen unless you actually apply for and are granted such status.

On the other hand this list appears to have fairly loose qualifications for who is an "American" as it includes numerous persons who were born and died abroad but lived in the US for a few years. Ellsworth 17:13, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of labor leaders

A user has contacted the Wikipedia help mail list suggesting that labor leaders be added to the list. My suggestion would be to add it to the list of activists under Labor leaders. His suggestions include:

  • Stuart Appelbaum,
  • Morton Bahr,
  • Dorothy Jacobs Bellanca ,
  • Irving Brown,
  • Fannia Cohn ,
  • David Dubinsky ,
  • Sandra Feldman,
  • Murray Findlay ,
  • Michael Gold ,
  • Samuel Gompers,
  • Victor Gotbaum,
  • Bessie Abramowitz Hillman,
  • Sidney Hillman,
  • Morris Hillquit,
  • Clara Lemlich,
  • Meyer London,
  • Theresa Serber Malkiel,
  • Jay Mazur,
  • Lenore Miller,
  • Isidore Nagler,
  • Pauline Newman,
  • Rose Pesotta ,
  • Max Pine,
  • Joseph Potofsky,
  • Bruce Raynor,
  • Rose Schneiderman,
  • Albert Shanker,
  • Clara Lemlich Shavelson,
  • Jack Sheinkman,
  • Sol Stetin,
  • Benjamin Stolberg,
  • Louis Waldman,
  • Jerry Wurf,
  • Baruch Charney Vladeck,
  • Max Zaritsky,
  • Charles Zimmerman.

There may also be a case for a category of Jewish American labor leaders.

Capitalistroadster 07:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] editing

I'm going to start breaking these sections off into their own pages and turning this into a list of lists of sorts, so please hold off on editting, etc. Peyna 02:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the initiative.Vulturell 02:45, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, pretty much completed, there is room for a lot of cleanup, as well merging in other lists and maybe even subdividing more, which I will leave for subsequent people. I couldn't think of a good name for a list of Jewish Americans related to the Military or the Other category. Peyna 02:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Duplicated lists

The following lists duplicate much of what is found here and need to be in someway merged. Peyna 03:31, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

All the information in these lists is already present in the other lists to my knowledge. StabRule 03:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm adding merge tags just to be safe. Peyna 03:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm copying and pasting them in alphabetical order on my computer to see. StabRule 03:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
OK, they've all been redirected - I noticed the Literary Critics section was missing so I added it to List of Jewish American Authors. StabRule 04:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AFD debate link

This article has been kept following this AFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] This should be titled List of Notable American Jews

Jewish Americans is a redirect.

[edit] Ethnicity lists discussion

Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rabbis

What about notable rabbis? — Rickyrab | Talk 00:00, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit]  :-(

This list seems a little Nazi-esque to me.

Why do we need to keep track of whose ancestors were Jewish? Judaism is a religion and not an ethnic group. This list creeps me out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.186.184 (talk) 06:46, 7 October 2007 (UTC)