Talk:List of yeshivas

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BS"D

Nu, there should be a page on Toras Moshe, Mamish, Its a choshuve Yeshiva, the menahel at my school recomended it for Beis Medrash and Kolel. But, nu, I'm a Ner(Yisroel) boy, so, nothing you can do about it. --Shaul avrom 02:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

All the information in this article is included in List of rosh yeshivas. It is redundant. Any content here missing from List of rosh yeshivas can be added there. The two articles should be merged. --Redaktor 04:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Agree. But maybe the merge should happen the other way. That is, the combined list of yeshivos and their roshim should be called "List of yeshivas", because that's what people are more likely to look for (though the other one should stay as a redirect). Zsero 05:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, really, now you are an expert on this subject one may gather? How can anyone justify merging lists of institutions with those of personalities?, that's like apples and oranges. What do either you or Radaktor know about this subject or why you want to tamper with it? That is the real question. IZAK 09:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense. --Redaktor 07:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

What makes "sense"??? IZAK 09:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

• Undecided - one article is a list of people, the other is a list of educational institutions. Yes, can be redundant or explicitly not. --Shuki 20:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

• Support merge - i think each rosh yeshiva should also have his yeshiva listed next to him... not sure it should be vice-versa for the yeshivos... since the rosh is a temp and the yeshiva is [[longer lasting. Jaakobou 20:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

• Leaning against -- and what about yeshivas that no longer exist? -- Sholom 20:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

That's why the merge should happen the other way. There are yeshivot without roshim, either because they're looking for one or because they're defunct. They could still appear on the list. There are also yeshivot with multiple roshim, all of whom could appear under the respective yeshivah. But by definition there are no roshim without yeshivot, so no need for a separate list. Zsero 22:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks like Zsero's proposal has general agreement: merge List of rosh yeshivas into List of yeshivas. Anyone looking for List of rosh yeshivas will get redirected, so all bases are covered. --Redaktor 22:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

• NO! Wrong Redaktor. How foolish is it to equate people with institutions, huh? This would be like merging Lists of universities and colleges with Lists of scholars and academics. How on earth could anyone justify that? And what do you really hope to achieve? What do you know about yeshivas and their heads in any case? Please let us all know before doing anything foolish. The proposal is rejected. Thank you. IZAK 09:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC) IZAK 08:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

So I take it you're against the merge? How about giving an actual argument against it? And whom exactly are we to "notify" before we go ahead with it? This is the talk page for the article; the merge proposal has been here for some time; were you expecting a personal message? Oh, and who exactly has "rejected" the proposal? You? מי שמך... Zsero 16:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

• • The matter of yeshivas touches each and every Orthodox and Haredi Jew so any move to articles about the subject is sensitive. It is known that Lubavitch dislikes "the comptetition" so it's no surprise that such moves will be made. I did give an argument (see above: This would be like merging Lists of universities and colleges with Lists of scholars and academics.) No personal message needed, you could have put something up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism or you could have placed a notice on Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism which I did. Anyhow, three people with pro-Chabad POVs come along and decide that the names of all the non-Chabad yeshivas and their rosh yeshivas should be merged doth not a neutral point of view make. This is not chabad.org or moshiach.org and it never will be. IZAK 07:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. IZAK 09:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

That's not an argument. For one thing Category:Lists of scholars and academics is not an article; there is no such article, so why should there be one for roshei yeshivah? But leaving that aside, you still haven't given a reason why both articles should exist. The list of yeshivot is duplicated in the list of roshim. What additional information is preserved by having two lists. Your claim that the subject "touches each and every Orthodox and Haredi Jew" is utterly irrelevant; all it amounts to is WP:ILIKEIT.

This isn't a proposal for deletion but for merging; there's no reason for it to have been posted on Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism, even if any of us had known of that page's existence. This is the talk page for the article, and this is where the merge proposal has sat unchallenged for nearly a month before you came along. So now your objection is noted, but since it isn't accompanied by an argument it's not convincing, and unless some serious opposition develops I will do the merge soon. Zsero 17:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Do not do so. There is no consensus. Your changes will be undone. Again, yeshivas and rosh yeshivas are two different subjects and they must have different lists. IZAK 13:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

• Against per IZAK --Yeshivish 19:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
• Against per IZAK. I don't understand why one would want to merge the two articles just because they are somewhat related, they are in fact two different things. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 18:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• I'm against any merge. The separate lists are useful as is. There certainly are roshei yeshiva with more than one yeshiva, and yeshivas with more than one rosh yeshiva, and yeshivas with no rosh yeshiva ... and for all I know there are wannabe roshei yeshiva with no yeshiva (yet). Institutions should be kept separate from the people who for the time being head them; I think the arguments stated earlier are cogent and don't need further repetition. I'm with IZAK on this. Yitz212.219.113.202 11:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)