Talk:List of vaporware

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[edit] Dead Frontier

Should dead frontier be moved to surfaced? Its currently in open beta but many speculate that it will never go MMO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.207.25 (talk) 12:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wardog - Worthy of Inclusion?

I couldn't help but notice that the game Wardog is not on the list. It was supposed to have been in development by Rebellion in 2002-2003 but nothing has been heard of it since. No mention of a name change, no mention of it being cancelled... Would this be a good candidate for a vaporware title?

Here is an additional link of screenshots from 2003... 3D Gamers.

Here is a link that even references the game as possibly being vaporware... 2000 AD Review -68.118.192.39 16:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)-

ATC v2.0 listing

I strongly disagree with the adding of ATCC V2.0... Although it's a software that everyone has been waiting for a long time, it is not cancelled, and contacts are not broken with editors.

So, putting it in this list is inaccurate.

217.19.202.32 11:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

From The Jargon File, the definition of vaporware includes: Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place).

I see this def. as compatible with the wikipedia vaporware def., as well as including ATC 2.0. When it is actually released, the listing should be removed, as it has been done for some other list entries as well. --OnixWP 21:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


Simon 3D~

Should Simon 3D be on the list? It was for a long time vaporware, but eventually was released.

/Q


--I removed Prey from this list, since very recently new screenshots and a possible release date have been released. --130.94.160.74 01:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

should we add Windows Vista?

No. bob rulz 06:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Legions, from Garagegames This should probably be included, those following Starsiege:Tribes and followers should recognize this, and the much-hyped FPS+Z format..the newest Starsiege should be included as well since the project has shut down...Hengineer 16:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perl 6

Why is perl 6 on the list? You've got interpreters prebuilt for most operating systems nowadays. While not in a final release, it's most certainly fully usable. I'm not talking about parrot, parrot can stay on the list. :) Debolaz 03:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the entry now. It was pointed out to me that I should probably be a bit more elaborate about the reasons for removing it. First of all, the entry in question claims that perl 6 has been in development for at least 10 years, which simply isn't true (Please do provide citations). So if anybody knows anything about this, please do speak up. Also, perl 6 isn't parrot. This is unfortunately a common misconception outside the perl community. While parrot still isn't production-ready, you have other perl 6 interpreters such as pugs that are actually used by people. If the entry is to be reinserted, please provide citations for the claim made and a good reason for why perl 6 should be on this list that applies to perl 6 and not just parrot. Debolaz 16:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost Colony Game

I think this should be listed as vaporware. Cash pre orders where taken and a huge hype created but on the scheduled live date did not deliver a product as advertised. Lost Colony Game is where the active discussion is taking place. Someone give it a sniff test please and give an independent opinon of Vapors or not. There is a build that runs but it's so weak and so far away from the plan as sold for cash and scheduled that I think it conforms to Vaporware as described Vashner 16:42 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to present a counter-argument from a different point of view here. If the product's main article was not found notable enough to be on Wikipedia, it's probably not notable enough to be listed here either. Debolaz 11:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:NOR

I've removed all entries in this list that had neither a citation, nor any mention of "vaporware" in the associated article. Feel free to restore any item whose vaporware-ness you source. --TreyHarris 16:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

These are the one's I'd possibly dispute deleting:
  1. Analytical engine
  2. Cairo
  3. Copland
  4. HURD
  5. Parrot virtual machine
  6. Taligent
If we accept the Wikipedia definition for vaporware then I think some of these are worth adding back because they failed to appear as products, having been pre-announced with some hype ("unwarranted optimism"), even if some of them were/are being developed to some extent. If you're asking for an actual citation of vaporware then that is more difficult, but I'd argue that these are generally well-known. Richard W.M. Jones 17:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
If they're well-known, then you can find a source saying they're vaporware. It's original research to read the definition on the vaporware article and make an analysis as to whether a product fits the definition or not. It's not original research to find a citation saying "X is vaporware". --TreyHarris 22:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] STALKER

Twice now I've removed STALKER from this list.

From the wiki article re vaporware:

Vaporware is software or hardware which is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge.

There is strong evidence of development. This includes:

1) The imminent public beta
2) The closed beta recently distributed to various media outlets worldwide for preview purposes
3) The relaunching of the developer website (http://www.stalker-game.com)
4) The launching of the UK Publishers website (http://www.man-made-hell.com)
5) The launching of the Worldwide Publishers website (http://www.stalker-videogame.com)
6) A definitive release date in March 2007
7) Official countdown timers to release (on publishers website)
8) The announcement of Collectors Editions
9) The release of in excess of 200 screenshots
10) The release of at least 20 minutes of game footage

These 10 points have occured within the last month. According to the current Wiki article re vaporware:

The term implies unwarranted optimism, or sometimes even deception;

I will continue to remove this title from this list for these reasons.

TheChode 00:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Most of these points are moot. Imminent public beta? As long as there is no public beta, that's not a valid point. Screenshots and footage has been out for a long, long time. Much of it predates the original release date in 2003 afaik. Announcement of a collectors editon seems to have no relevance whatsoever to this. But all of what you describe here is a process that has happent repeatedly now, several times has journalists been invited to play the game, several times has there been definitive release dates.. and when the release date comes close, it's pushed out. Seeing how this is not original research but actually a commonly held opinion by several notable sources I will keep the entry until the release date and then if the game is actually released on time, I will not object to its removal.
But, let me quote the main S.T.A.L.K.E.R. article: On the morning of the event, the 'lucky' winners were met at the venue by the THQ staff that had organised the event, who were embarrassed to report that they had been unable to get any copies of the game. Understandably, this does little to help the vaporware accusations.
Translated: The publishers themselves did not have any copies of the game at the 24th of january. Which also means they've at least promised one thing they couldn't deliver this round, can we really be sure they'll be able to get a release at the date they've specified if they cannot even get a few copies of the game this late in development? In combination with what I said above about what we can observe happening is basically just being history repeating itself and many notable sources agreeing, I think that it's warranted to keep the game listed for now. Debolaz 09:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


http://www.fileplanet.com/173507/170000/fileinfo/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:-Shadow-of-Chernobyl-Beta-Client

Public playable beta. Your continuation to edit this article consitutes nothing but stubborness and arrogance.

TheChode 13:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

No, you're the one who has been stubborn and arrogant here. You've constantly up untill now refused to provide any kind of references and just said you were right no matter what the rest of the world said. Also, I noticed your initial response on this talk page also labeled me as a vandal which certainly don't make you come off any less immature than you already do. This being said, since you've now, after many months, finally provided a notable source for why your claim should be considered, I'll let S.T.A.L.K.E.R. remain off the list untill the release date. If it's not released on the announced date, it will be readded. Deal? Debolaz 13:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I edit articles to reflect accuracy, in accordance with Wikipedia policies. If you edit them for personal reasons, or resort to trying to make deals with others to make the article reflect your personal opinion as though it is your personal property, that's your business. I will regularly review this article to ensure it's accuracy.

TheChode 00:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

That's funny, you never once cited policy and you consistently refused to give any sort of reference to back up your claims, wanting people to take you as an absolute authority on the matter. And don't try to insinuate that I have some personal or economic reasons, that's a very serious accusation for which you have no evidence to back it up with. And since you seem to be so familiar with wikipedia policy, one of them is to assume good faith which I've had up until now. Since there is a public beta and hence something that indicates the game actually exists in a usable form, I will let the game be removed from the list for now. But I say again, if this game is not released on the announced date then it will be readded and it will stay there until we see a release. Debolaz 10:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Going by the dictionary, vaporware is "Software or hardware which has been advertised for an extended period but is not available to purchase, due to cancellation or protracted development issues". In much the same way as Duke Nukem Forever, STALKER should be on the list until it is available to purchase. History has shown that the existence of a playable demo does not indicate that a game will be ready for the release date (Half-Life 2 was playable and shown to journalists before the code-theft debacle, and something similar could occur here), so it should probably remain on the list until you can buy a copy of the finished product, in a box, from a store. - Davidjk RC Patrol 10:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Though in this case it isn't a public demonstration ala Half Life 2, but an officially released publically playabe build available to all users. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.164.14.92 (talk) 23:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
There's a preview of the game on Eurogamer with the quote "S.T.A.L.K.E.R does exist - we finally have stand-alone preview code that can be played at length without PR overlords hovering over our shoulder, or developers guiding us to the bits that actually work." Brooza 12:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
TV ads for the game have begun airing in the UK, including sponsorship of a TV series (sorry, can't remember which one) Brooza 11:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Means very little, other Vaporware has been advertised. And if the game isn't released on time, it will be readded to this page. Debolaz 23:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Surfaced Vaporware

To satisfy all parties involved I have split Stalker into a new section I have headed "Surfaced Vaporware", and included entries for Prey and Windows Vista into this section.

I am uncertain if this would be the correct title for this section, and I'm open to suggestions.

TheChode 05:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

This is actually a good idea, however S.T.A.L.K.E.R. technically hasn't surfaced yet. Also, Windows Vista should probably have references if this was indeed widely considered vaporware like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. any Prey. Debolaz 06:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree, I think Vista should be removed from the list, as I expect there was never any doubt that MS would release an update to their OS Brooza 20:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Vista actually had a number of beta releases as longhorn going back to 2005. Microsoft publicly thanked their 3,500,000 beta testers at their January 31, 2007 release. There were uncertain things about longhorn like NGSCB and WinFS that were dropped. See Development of Windows Vista. I am removing. Group29 17:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I am removing again - Brooza 11:40, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Half-Life 2

It's pretty weak to put HL2 on a vaporware list. The game wasn't announced until 12 months before release and it missed only one release date. There was never any doubt that the game was in development, or that it would eventually be released. There was even a source code leak showing that development had been in progress for some time.

bspeakmon 17:09, 17 July 2007 (PDT)

I agree with this, removing it from the list - Brooza 11:38, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD results

Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 15 November 2007. The result of the discussion was No consensus.

[edit] deleting all unreferenced items

I have restored the deleted list. A quick check with Google finds references for each one I have checked. All blue links have articles themselves in which the references can be cut and pasted here. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)