Talk:List of units using the F-4 Phantom

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Some remarks to the units of the Luftwaffe:

Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen" (= 71st Fighter Squadron)

This translation is not truly correct. The 'Geschwader' of the Luftwaffe is a unit larger than the squadron of the USAF or RAF, I would translate it with wing. Beside technical and support squadrons, a 'Geschwader' consist of two 'Staffeln' (= squadrons) actually flying aircrafts. In german they are called '1. Staffel' and 2. Staffel'. For identification in the NATO, the numbers of the squadron are added to the number of 'Geschwader'.

So I would translate: Jagdschwader 71 "Richthofen" (= 71st Fighter Wing "Richthofen" including 711st Fighter Squadron and 712nd Fighter Squadron)

Jagdgeschwader 74 "Mölders"

The Jagdgeschwader 74 is not longer named "Mölders". See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_M%C3%B6lders:

...In his memory, JG 51 was bestowed the honour name " Molders". After the war, the modern Luftwaffe gave JG 74 at Neuburg/Donau was same honour name "Mölders". In 2005 the German Secretary of Defence Peter Struck (Social Democratic Party) ordered, that the honour name of JG 74 be removed because of Mölders involvement with the Condor Legion. ...

Aufklärungsgeschwader 51 "Immelmann" - (= 51st Reconnaissance Squadron, decommissioned) Aufklärungsgeschwader 52 - (decommissioned)

These two Reconnaissance Wing merged as Aufklärungsgeschwader 51 "Immelmann" using the 'Panther' - Insignia of the former Aufklärungsgeschwader 52. The RF-4 E was replaced by modified Tornado formely used by the german Navy.

As I'm not a native english speaker, I hope my english is not too bad...

Regards

ToKro

[edit] Asessment

While large the article is more of a list than an article. Needs serious work before it can become a B Ikokki 00:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] F-4 Phantom operators

A lot of this article is textual and duplicates information in the article F-4 Phantom operators, which has recently been reworked and improved. A number of suggestion

• Remove the text that is now in operators article
• Remove the unit information for foreign operators as they are in the operators article.
• Consider merging in the List of U.S. Navy F-4 Phantom II units to make this a list of both USAF and USN operators only
• Dont merge in the US Navy and make this a list of USAF units using the F-4 Phantom.

Comments welcomed. MilborneOne (talk) 18:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, the best plan would be a merge of this list with List of U.S. Navy F-4 Phantom II units to make this a list of both USAF and USN operators only. Currently this page looks like the result of two articles (possessing different styles and format) that have been joined together. The foreign service text looks out of place, and all of this information is already covered in greater depth in F-4 Phantom operators. --Red Sunset (talk) 18:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

OR, similarly/simply, we can...

• merge foreign units info into F-4 Phantom operators and rename to F-4 Phantom II foreign operators, and
• merge USAF units info into List of U.S. Navy F-4 Phantom II units, and rename to F-4 Phantom II U.S. operators, then,
• delete List of units using the F-4 Phantom........ LanceBarber (talk) 06:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep; basically the same idea but more precisely put. Works for me, but how about F-4 Phantom II foreign operators per some recent discussions? --Red Sunset (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What is foreign to some is home to others. Does the page name need to be less subjective (or less ambiguous)? Snowman (talk) 18:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Foreign meaning different to the subject's nationality. It does seem a bit imprecise but I think most readers would realise what is meant. (BTW, I posted the previous note without knowing the operators page name had already been changed; sorry!) --Red Sunset (talk) 18:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

True, how about F-4 Phantom II non-U.S. operators.... I also fixed the lead-in sentence for your article name change.LanceBarber (talk) 19:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That is logical. If there is a small or very small section on USA operation with a "see main page signpost", then the page name could remain "F-4 Phantom II operators". There is discussion on the name of this page on its talk page (for the page as it is currently). Snowman (talk) 16:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

The content of this article has been copied piecemeal to F-4 Phantom II U.S. operators and F-4 Phantom II non-U.S. operators. This article will be cleared and made to redirect to F-4 Phantom II U.S. operators. -Fnlayson (talk) 05:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)