Talk:List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning

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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 November 2005. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

This article was nominated for deletion on June 20 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Archives

/Archive 1 (Oct 2004 to May 2007) /Archive 2 (May 2007 to July 2007) /Archive 3 (July 2007 to November 2007)

Contents 1 /Institutions removed from list for lack of sourcing or other issues 2 Biased Methods of Deciding Whether a School Belongs on this List or Not 3 Swedish reference 4 More unsourced assertions removed 5 Orlady and Selective Removal of Entries 6 Punjab Technical University 7 Striken due to conflict

[edit] /Institutions removed from list for lack of sourcing or other issues

[edit] Biased Methods of Deciding Whether a School Belongs on this List or Not

On 20 October 2007 Orlady made the following two edits: (Converted Success Seminary to a hidden comment. Only Ghits on it are "unaccredited lists." No point in merely replicating those lists with entries that have no independent value.) 20 October 2007 Orlady (remove Promis (I'm uncomfortable listing a school on the Oregon list unless there's some other info about it somewhere); consolidated several reference callouts)

By that criteria we can convert University of Esoterica to a hidden comment as well since the only Google hits on it are also the lists of unaccredited schools – Oregon, Maine, Michigan and this very article. The website of the Esoteric Interfaith Church, Inc. comes up in a Google Search for University of Esoterica because they are who created the University of Esoterica, but it isn’t a direct google hit since the phrase University of Esoterica no longer appears on any website but the lists of unaccredited schools. Success Seminary also generates another Google hit with BreyerState.com online degree program where one can “design” their own degree. Success Seminary appears as unaccredited on the Oregon, Maine, Texas and Michigan lists. You say Success Seminary has no independent value based on its Google hits and perhaps the fact that it doesn’t have its own website (Univ of Esoterica doesn’t have its own website either) yet decide University of Esoterica does have independent value and must stay in this list. We were told if a school is unaccredited it “belongs on this list,” “end of story”, yet Success Seminary gets removed/hidden just like that.-KatiaRoma 00:23, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Calm down, it's been readded. Here's the source. J 00:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

My underlying concern is that there is no particular value to having a list in Wikipedia that merely replicates the Oregon list. (In the past, resemblance to the Oregon list -- with no additional content -- was one of things that has caused people to propose deleting this article. Also, the Oregon list is long and is always growing -- keeping up with it would be a big job, and surely Wikipedia contributors have better things to do than copy a list that is readily available on the web.) Regarding Success Seminary: Searching Google, the only information I could find about Success Seminary is "Operating illegally in Oregon, degrees invalid". That information is repeated on several websites, all apparently based on the ODA listing. The mere appearance of a name on the ODA list does not create information worthy of an encyclopedia; without any other evidence that this place exists, solicits students, or awards degrees, there's little information value in listing it here. If you found something I missed, I'll pay attention, but the State of Maine listing only mirrors the ODA listing. Regarding Promis (actually it may be called PROMIS, for "Professional Management and Interactive Skills"): The Oregon website had the most minimal of listings for this school; just "Promis University of London" and "UK and Belize". I did find a minimalist website for it (http://www.promis-university.com/), listing addresses in London and Koblenz, Germany (not Belize) and I found a promotional page for one faculty member at http://www.xing.com/profile/KlausPeter_Dreykorn. I was left feeling that I don't know enough about this institution to make any statements about it in a Wikipedia article. (Note: The similarly-named Promis Clinic in the UK appears legitimate.) If someone wants to look up its accreditation status, they should have no trouble finding the ODA website. --Orlady 01:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

In summary, it comes down to whether there is enough reliably sourced information to include in an article. --Orlady 01:07, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Another way of looking at this is that I think it would be wonderful if the web editor for each of the states with a list would automatically add new entries to the state list to this Wikipedia list as well. It will never be a complete list but it seems that one verifiable and reliable source is all that is required to allow an institution entry into the list. TallMagic 02:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I fear that your philosophy is likely to collide with WP:NOT, which says Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; merely being true or informative does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia. If the only information we have about a particular institution is that its name appears on the Oregon list (and may or may not be replicated on other state lists), when we include it in this article it seems to me we are creating an indiscriminate collection of information. If all we have is a name and location from the Oregon list, plus a minimal website that uses the same name but lists a different location, I contend that we don't actually have any information suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia. --Orlady 15:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that there needs to be a clear cut off. Either the list contains only institutions that have a Wikipedia article about them or the list contains only institutions that have a reliable source for their unaccredited status. In between is a gray area that I think will just cause endless debate. Unless we can come up with a better way to define where in the gray area do we draw the line? TallMagic 16:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Someone has re-added Promis University of London. They have a website now, so I guess there's some value in having their name on this list. --Orlady (talk) 16:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. We need to be sure what evidence we are claiming in order to include an institution to this list... Alexpappas01 01:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Swedish reference

If anyone can read Swedish, this may be informative: http://web2.hsv.se/publikationer/rapporter/2005/0525R.pdf --Orlady (talk) 01:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_unaccredited_institutions_of_higher_learning&action=edit# —

[edit] More unsourced assertions removed

I expect to add to this list

• American University of Biblical Studies, “partnered with” Trinity Christian Academy, Decatur & Atlanta, Georgia, India. ^[1][2]

Neither source confirms that either school is unaccredited.

• University of Natural Health, 1929 Spillway Road, Suite B Brandon, MS 39047, USA. Also called Natural Health College^[3]

Certainly appears to be unaccredited, but this is not reliably sourced.

--Orlady (talk) 00:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

• Atlantic Baptist Bible College, Chester, Virginia.^[4]
• Baptist College of America & Seminary, Kokomo, Indiana. Part of Independent Baptist Bible College Movement. Website and catalog state, “We believe in the loyalty to country and government and the separation of church and state.”^[5]

These are definitely Bible colleges; nothing suggests that they are accredited, but there is no source for lack of accreditation. --Orlady (talk) 04:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Orlady has been selectively removing entries of American institutions from this list. Kindly do not do this. Either remove all unsourced and undocumented entries in one go, or let the list remain. No partial tampering is admissible The Hermes (talk) 10:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

• Christian College (sourced to Maine's list)

With a generic name and no other info, there's not enough here to make the list entry informative. --Orlady (talk) 00:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Why is Greenleaf University missing from this list?Kalos53 (talk) 05:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Orlady and Selective Removal of Entries

Orlady has been selectively removing entries of American institutions from this list. Kindly do not do this. Either remove all unsourced and undocumented entries in one go, or let the list remain. No partial tampering is admissible The Hermes (talk) 10:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Punjab Technical University

The approval/accreditation status of this school is disputed. Its listing in this article was sourced to the Indian UGC fake universities list. Since it does not currently appear on that list, it should not be listed in the article. Furthermore, http://www.education.nic.in/collegedir/collegedir.asp appears to indicate that it is an approved university in India. Apparently some contributors believe it is unapproved. What is the basis for this? --Orlady (talk) 16:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

PTU, is an accredited University is India. It had applied with UGC to be listed as a Centre of Excellence, which was subsequently rejected. (Source http://ugc.ac.in/). This might have prompted some to believe that PTU is not accredited. Shovon (talk) 17:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That explanation makes sense. --Orlady (talk) 03:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Striken due to conflict

I used <strike> on Kentucky Christian University because the article states it is accredited. I won't remove it from the list because it is sourced, but someone should look at it. And whatever other ones are striken. -- SEWilco (talk) 04:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed. It's been accredited by SACS for the last 24 years [1]. How the hell did it end up on this list? I'm removing it entirely. --Dynaflow babble 04:28, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Looking into it a bit further, there seem to be two entities using the Kentucky Christian University name, one unaccredited one (per the Maine list) in Ashland and an accredited one (which the Maine list misidentifies as "Kentucky Christian College") in Grayson. The wikilink points to the legit school's article. --Dynaflow babble 04:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)