Talk:List of sports car manufacturers

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on January 21, 2008. The result of the discussion was No Consensus.
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[edit] critera

I recently added a link to Porsche, an obvious omission from this list. Many of these companies aren't exclusive manufacturers of sports cars; those of the few that are still in business, anyway. Lamborghini made tractors for a long time, for example. Many of the companies, like Ferrari, outsource their engineering and design services. I think that the "devoted exclusively to producing sports cars" criteria is self-defeating, and should be broadened to include companies who are notable for sports cars, or perhaps those that produce sports cars as a core of their business.

As it stands, many of the listed companies don't produce anything, since they're long gone. Shouldn't those be removed, too?-- Mikeblas 18:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This list includes specialist manufacturers or marques of modern and classic sports cars. This includes historic marques, but is still incomplete. The objective of this list is to differentiate the companies that devote efforts to sports cars, from those that serve other market segments. It is more challenging to serve this specific market when the firm does not have other high-selling, more popular, or mass-market models that can produce more steady revenue streams.
The problem with including companies that are "notable" for including sports cars in their product mix is that this page would then become a just another list of almost all automakers, both current and historic.
Companies have various strategies at various times, but only those that made or currently make sports cars should appear on this list. If they get involved in producing SUVs or other products, then they will be removed because they are not "devoted exclusively to producing sports cars" – thus the reason Porsche is not on this list.
I hope that explains the rationale behind this list. — CZmarlin 21:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Your position seems very hardened, and that's too bad. I don't think the list, as it stands, serves uses well. -- Mikeblas 05:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
If you're going to remove Porsche, shouldn't you remove Maserati as they sell lots of GT cars, Triumph because they sold lots of different kinds of cars (but are best remembered for their sports cars), MG because they built lots of non-sports cars (MG ZR, MG Magnette, MG Metro 6R4), Lamborghini because they build lots of tractors (including agricultural ones too), McLaren because they predominantly built the Mercedes SLR (which is a GT), Ferrari because they sell a large percentage of GTs, and finally Aston Martin for building lots of GTs (their primary focus). In fact, while Porsche might sell lots of SUVs, the only other cars they manufacture are sports cars, so out of their product mix, they have a much higher percentage of sports cars to non-sports cars than Ferrari and a good number of the others. Might I suggest that we change the focus to be companies that are predominantly renown for their sports cars, which would better sit with what people who visit this page are likely to want to see. Nasty 00:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
It's a list of sports car manufacturers, not "List of sports car manufacturers that are currently in production", so no. --Pixelface 05:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I would very much like to add Bentley, although they have not made sports car for almost 80 years the ones they did were some of the best ever made. I also think that the Porsche Cayenne is a ridiculous vehicle and should not be counted against Porsche. Garethashenden (talk) 14:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


Why have the article only list companies that produce ONLY sports cars? Why not separate it into two sections, if you feel that distinction is important? Also, what is the definition of a sports car? Do GTs count? Is an STI not a sports car? Hell, you could even make a case for the Cayenne. And how about Lamborghini? They don't make anything but sports cars now, even though they have in the past. (And Lamborghini tractors are a separate company, BTW) This list seems pretty arbitrary, and not terribly useful with these exclusions in place.Andy Christ (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This list of companies that are devoted to producing, or have only produced, sports is not arbitrary. Adding more popular types of vehicles expands the automaker's marketing mix, as well as the business and potential profits. This is why this list is a useful compilation of an exclusive group of enterprises that are (or were) developers and manufacturers of only sports cars. There are other articles that contain lists, such as the examples of models that may be classified as the grand tourers. Expanding this list to include every company that has produced (or currently produces) sports cars would not be very beneficial or very informative. It would contain almost every automaker because almost every company has produced a sports car model in their product mix at some point in their history. It would seem that the resulting list of all automobile manufacturers in the world would not be very informative. Nor is it possible to determine that the "Cayenne is a ridiculous vehicle and should not be counted against Porsche" when the company's strategy is to move into markets other than just sports cars. CZmarlin (talk) 05:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The definition of sports cars is arbitrary. You could make a case for Porsche, even with the Cayenne and any future plans, is remaining a sports car manufacturer. Also, the fact that Lamborghini made 300 SUVs 20 years ago doesn't make them a manufacturer of family cars. Do you count a company's entire history against them, even if all they make NOW is sports cars? Ferrari doesn't count? What, because they made a few GTs? Where do you draw the line between a GT and a sports car? Now find 10 people who will say the same thing you do without prompting. Good luck. Hell, does Lotus even count, seeing as how they're more of an engineering company? And what use does this list actually serve, BTW? Andy Christ (talk) 21:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Please see the article about sports car as far as defining the type of vehicle. As a list of manufacturers of "sports cars", this is about as well-defined as it can be. Please keep in mind that it is not a list of "sports car makers that also make sedans, grand tourers, sport utility vehicles, and/or trucks, as well as having other business activities". Therefore, this list serves the purpose of listing those companies that concentrate on making, or have made, only "traditional" sports cars.
Any contributor is free to develop a new list of companies as they see fit. For example, making a new list of manufactures of all other types of vehicles or companies that are also involved in other types of businesses -- in addition to making sports cars. Such a new list would not have to include any explanations (such as making the case that Porsche should be excused from selling badge engineered SUVs) nor would it require any other footnotes. With such a new comprehensive list, I would then turn around and also ask "what use would such a list serve?" — CZmarlin (talk) 22:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe you should see that article. It doesn't support your position. Also, you aren't really answering my criticisms here. Andy Christ (talk) 23:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Perhaps you should be also little more selective in the "definition" of sports car as there is no "definite" description and the article itself does not provide solid references. I have tried to answer in broad terms your concerns, but there are other contributors and editors that have worked on this list. Please note the following statement under the short list of some of the specialist sports car marques under the "Examples" section: "almost all major car manufacturers have made some form of high performance car,"
  • It is also noteworthy that rather than helping expand the information within Wikipedia by developing a list that incorporates all sorts of other criteria that you want to include under sports car manufacturers, you instead quickly respond by nominating this list for deletion without discussing its removal here on this "talk" page. — CZmarlin (talk) 01:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
You're trying to create (and control) an article based upon an unspecified definition of the term "sports car." If people were to follow your "create another list" suggestion and then keep your strict, narrow (and ill-defined) criteria for that list, it would result in a proliferation of pointless, barely differentiated lists. If you want to make some kind of differentiation, you should specifically and objectively define your criteria for the list as it stands, and allow another section for other manufacturers. Because the list TITLE suggests something more inclusive than what your goals for the list are, it will only continue to attract people who have different ideas as to what it should be.
And seriously, excluding Ferrari is stupid. They are the archetype of a sports car company. Unless you can define the line between GTs and sports cars, you cannot exclude them. And Lamborghini...you'd exclude a company defined by their sports cars based on them making a truck, decades ago?
The fact that the vague and arbitrary definitions of terms used to limit this article leaves open the possibility to include probably 9 out of 10 major automakers (and even THEN you'd have to fight over the definition of a sports car...Mercury? Oh no, a sports car can't have a live axle...) and half the automakers on the planet is why this list should either be expanded or deleted.
As for discussion of deletion, what did you THINK I was suggesting? Andy Christ (talk) 06:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Random additions

There was no consensus to delete the list. The task to classify vehicles is now being discussed. However, before this occurs, it would be good to refrain from adding random names of automakers to this list. The most recent edits included brands such as Yamaha without a basis to include them on this list, perhaps because Yamaha also makes sporty golf carts and many other "leisure" vehicles? Once again the major mainstream automakers such as Dodge, Chevrolet, and Toyota were added. Of course they make sports cars -- but their high-performance vehicles make up a small fraction of total sales volume. As I mentioned before, there could be another list with every company that has ever made a "sports car" that is broadly defined to encompass everything on wheels. This will keep enthusiasts promoting their favorite brands much more content by listing everything! — CZmarlin (talk) 06:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


You're still not doing anything about making this list's scope clear.Andy Christ (talk) 06:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manufacturers for removal

The following have been added at some point or other and most definitely do not fit the current criteria:

Nasty (talk) 10:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is time to delete them! — CZmarlin (talk) 14:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)