Talk:List of reggaeton artists
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From WP:LIST, "Lists should always include unambiguous statements of membership criteria based on definitions made by reputable sources". Now, how are these artists being defined with unambiguous criteria based on reliable sources? Since many people on the list are still alive, references are even more important. Until(1 == 2) 13:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- The criterion is membership of the category. Kappa 16:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
What part of "Lists should always include unambiguous statements of membership criteria based on definitions made by reputable sources" don't you get? Being in a Wikipedia category is not basing anything off of reputable sources, you need references and clear criteria for those references to meet. Until(1 == 2) 16:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- This is just hypocrisy. Kappa 16:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Geez, the rules have been the same the whole time so I don't see the hypocrisy. Take a look at List of Indian companies for a list that is on its way to meeting policy. It defines its criteria as meeting WP:CORP(described in html comments before each section), and it has references to demonstrate the meeting of that criteria. It is even on its way to having content beyond just a copy of the category. Until(1 == 2) 16:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Before you took the note out, this list defined its criterion as having a wikipedia article, which meant its members passed WP:BAND. Kappa 16:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Gee, I read WP:BAND and it does not say the requirement is to "have a wikipedia article". To assume that all band articles meet WP:BAND is a plain incorrect assumption. I agree that WP:BAND is a fine set of criteria to demonstrate it is a band, but what makes it a "reggaeton" band? Where is this genre defined in a manner that can be confirmed by reliable sources? Where are the reliable sources showing it even meets WP:BAND? Until(1 == 2) 16:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- You are aware of the existence of Category:Reggaeton musicians? Kappa 17:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I will say this yet again, Wikipedia is not a reliable source. The point of a reliable source is to get outside verification. You cannot just say that an artist is a "reggaeton" artist because a Wikipedia article says he is, you need a reliable source, that is not Wikipedia. Until(1 == 2) 17:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- What does Category:Reggaeton musicians do? Kappa 17:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
It organizes similar articles together, but that has nothing at all to do with the inclusion requirements of this list. WP:LIST#Criteria_for_inclusion_in_lists and WP:LIST#Lists_content explains exactly what is expected. Until(1 == 2) 17:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The fact is that I don't think there is a unambiguous definition of "reggaeton", most genres have unclear and varying definitions. I just don't think "genre" categories are encyclopedic due to verifiability issues. What is needed is a neutral definition of "reggaeton" that is mainstream enough that multiple sources agree on it. WP:NPOV and WP:OR are the main issues here. Until(1 == 2) 17:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- You don't think the category is encylopedic, are you then planning to nominate it for deletion? Kappa 17:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
No, but I am strongly considering nominating this list for deletion unless unambiguous statements of membership criteria based on definitions made by reputable sources are defined. Until(1 == 2) 17:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- As I said, this is just hypocrisy. Kappa 17:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Well I can't see the hypocrisy since I have been consistent the whole time, so if you really want me to see how it is hypocritical you need to spell it out. Until(1 == 2) 17:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- What objection to this list do you have that cannot equally be applied to the category? Kappa 17:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Since the two are pretty much identical, none. The problem in the category is spread over several articles. The problem here is just in one. I do think the category is a problem, but I don't have time to address that, I have time to address this. Until(1 == 2) 17:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- What would you do with the category if you had time? Kappa 17:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
From WP:CAT, "An article should normally possess all the referenced information necessary to demonstrate that it belongs in each of its categories". So, I would go to the articles and see if they have demonstrated in an unambiguous manner by reliable sources that they belong in that category. But as I said, I don't have time to go over that many articles as I am doing that type of work at List of Indian companies right now(accept in regards to notability, not just verifiability). Until(1 == 2) 18:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- I am grateful for the work you are doing at that list. I will return to this discussion tomorrow. Kappa 18:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Scope
All right, I see you have started by finding references, that is a good start, thank you. It will help if we define the scope in an unambiguous manner defined by reliable sources. So here is my first crack at it:
- Musical artists that have reliable sources that both pass the WP:BAND notability requirements, and refer to or acknowledge the artist being on who performs the style "Reggaeton"
This satisfies the claim of the list(that they are a reggaeton artist) and satisfies the notability requirements in WP:BAND. It is based off of reliable sources, and is not ambiguous. What do you think of that as the inclusion criteria? Until(1 == 2) 18:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well yes, that pretty much sums up what being in the category is supposed to mean, however it will also allow redlinks which is fine by me. Kappa 21:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
If a redlinked artists has the references needed to meet the inclusion criteria above it will be very easy to make a stub article for that artist. Glad we are in agreement about the criteria for inclusion. Now the trick is to bring the listed artists up to this standard or remove them. Until(1 == 2) 22:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What's the Point
This category is pretty useless. I mean its got people in it who aren't even really Reggaetón like Pitbull. If this page is to continue, someone needs to make sure it only includes true Reggaetoneros! I mean just because an artist does a Reggaetón song doesn't mean they're a Reggaetonero! TeePee-20.7 15:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Feel free to remove any entry that does not have an independent reliable source referring to the artist as a Reggaetón artist, or fails to pass the WP:BAND notability requirements. That is the agreed upon scope of the article. I also have my doubts about this topic. Until(1 == 2) 15:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
