Talk:List of pornographic sub-genres

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[edit] Formatting of inter-Wiki links

I made some major changes to the structure and categorization of this article, which I consider improvements. One of these is that every genre of pornography is referred to with the word "pornography", to avoid sentences like "Rubber involves rubber, latex, and similar materials".

The word or phrase describing each genre of pornography is bolded. In the cases where there is not a specific article associated with the genre, such as "Spanking pornography", a link is provided to the subject itself, (spanking, in this instance) but the word "pornography" is kept outside of the link and is not bolded.

However, if a type of pornography already has its own article, there is a complete link to it. As in the case of "Amateur pornography", the word "pornography" is included as part of the link and is bolded. This allows a visual representation of which genres have an entire article written on the topic. Joie de Vivre 23:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lesbian genre

Hey, Iamcuriousblue. I saw your concern in the edit summary, and I don't think the description implies anything about what "real lesbians" do. I think it's fair to say that most performers in lesbian pornography for men are slender and depilated. I don't think it's appropriate to say they are "attractive by typical heterosexual male standards". One, because there isn't one uniform "typical heterosexual male standard". Despite the uniformity in the genre, I have observed no uniformity of preference among even the most attractive men I know, and regardless, we don't have sources for that statement anyway. Two, I think it's superfluous to say they are "attractive"... I mean, that's kind of a given, right? Any porn producer, unless there's some intimidation or gross-out factor intended, seeks the most attractive performers possible. So, I think the current physical description is sufficient, rather than going into what a "typical heterosexual man" wants; that's outside the scope of this article. Obviously, judging by the very wide variety of porn genres here, there isn't just one body type or kink that turns everyone's crank.  :) What is "typically attractive" really depends on the person. Let me know what you think. Joie de Vivre 15:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I can see the point. However, the problem is that part of the description is distinguishing lesbian-oriented lesbian porn vs "hetlez" girl-girl porn for a male audience ("hetlez" is a protologism I've been seing around the blogosphere, but because its a protologism, I didn't mention the term in the article). And the characteristics you've given, at least the shaving thing, don't really differentiate the two – true, most "hetlez" performers are depilated, but so are a lot of women in lesbian-made porn, particularly when you're talking about femme women. I think the website Cyber-dyke.net or Pink and White Productions are prime examples – they're lesbian-oriented companies and their models look different from those in hetlez porn, but most of the women at least have shaved legs, many have shaved pubic hair as well. So that's not really a terrible good marker for differentiating the two. Iamcuriousblue 03:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for getting back to me. The statement about depilation isn't meant to differentiate the two. It's just an observation about the first one, and I think it's accurate. The performers in lesbian porn for men are typically (if not almost always) slender and depilated. That's just a statement of fact. It has nothing to do with the content of the "for women" description. Do you think either description is wrong in some way? I think it looks pretty good as-is. (P.S. I had never heard of the word "hetlez", pretty funny.) Joie de Vivre 05:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Another thing I realized: many of the genre descriptions include a statement of what is "typical" for the genre. The reason we don't have one for the Lesbian porn for women is that variety is typical. Joie de Vivre 14:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Murder?

"Murder of another person is illegal in almost all areas." WTF?!?! Only in almost all areas??? Where is it legal to kill someone else then? 83.76.46.15 23:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

In Iran. Joie de Vivre 15:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I seem to recall capital punishment being fairly widespread in places besides Iran. Murder is generally construed in a different way, as an individual killing another individual, intentionally, without just cause, and often is defined to require forethought. We coudl argue that capital punishment is murder, but I would say this is no place to point fingers at Iran (not that I support capital punishment there or anywhere else - I don't). I've made edits to hopefully avoid any unclear language. Cheeser1 15:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
That was just one example, meant offhand. Incidentally, the public execution of two teenagers, who were executed because they had sex with each other, is a fine reason to point fingers. Joie de Vivre 16:19, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, "murder is illegal almost everywhere" is a pretty weaselly statement and can be easily avoided. As for fingerpointing, I don't think I could have made it any more clear that I wasn't supporting those executions in any way, only pointing out that it is highly irrelevant to this article and this discussion (as simply saying "capital punishment" would have sufficed). I never said there was no reason to point fingers, and don't appreciate you insinuating that I did. All I said was that this isn't the forum for that kind of statement. This isn't a place for making incidental points, not a one. Cheeser1 18:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I think I understand your position. I would like to explain. I was the editor who added the "almost everywhere" statement to the article, back in April. I wrote it that way to avoid making a definitive statement about the laws of the entire world, which I would have been unable to source. I didn't realize at the time that it was a weasel-worded statement. The statement remained just sitting there since April, and so hopefully it is clear that it was not created as a loophole to finger-point at Iran or anywhere else. It was a mere oversight. It was only after the anon asked, "where is it legal to kill someone else?", that I answered the question offhand.
As far as the subject matter goes, please understand that the execution of Ayaz Marhoni and Mahmous Asgari traumatized people worldwide. I found it so upsetting that the best way for me to deal with it was to talk about it, which is why I felt moved to mention it here. It's true that capital punishment is legal in many areas. However, it is particularly trying on the soul when capital punishment is applied to teenagers who were caught in bed together.
You did a good job de-weaseling the statement. That's all. Joie de Vivre 21:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lolita pornography categorization

I understand that it is "age" related, but the fact that it is women over 18 who are pretending to be underage girls makes it predominantly a fetish. The genre does not actually center around their age. It centers around a fetishistic fantasy that the adult performers are portraying. Joie de Vivre 05:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It is an age-related fetish and to my mind belongs in the "age" category. Part of the problem is that I really don't think there's much of a distinction between "barely legal" teen porn and "lolita" porn – they're basically the same genre. The only distinction to my mind is between legal teen porn (aka "barely legal" porn), which involves models over 18 (though still typically 21 or under) and illegal teen porn, which is more or less a subset of child pornography, at least legally speaking. You could say "lolita" porn means the actresses pretend to be underage, but that's kind of subjective. In most porn of this kind, there is no explicit statement that the actresses or the characters they play are under 18, its just that they're presented in settings and costumes that suggest "high school girl". And that tends to be true of "teen girl" porn across the board, whether they're calling it "lolita" or "barely legal". Iamcuriousblue 00:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Animated child pornography categorization

It should be under the illegal section as it is illegal in many countries. See Lolicon for information on national bans. Joie de Vivre 21:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read this and I'm still under the impression that this kind of material is not banned in most countries of the world. It certainly isn't in Japan, it isn't in the United States (in spite of perception to the contrary), and it isn't in most European countries. So being placed in the category of "generally illegal" simply isn't accurate. Iamcuriousblue 00:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latina porn

A simple google test reveals "latina porn" is by far the most common term for heterosexual porn in this genre, followed by "latin porn". "Latino porn" is less common and "hispanic porn" has very little usage by comparison. So I say keep using "Latina/Latin pornography" as the title of that section. Iamcuriousblue 21:43, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] teen pornography

the teen pornography sub-genre has a broken link that needs to be fixed.

The previous article there was deleted because it was vandalism, not because the subject is unfit for an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.85.197.151 (talk) 23:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)