Talk:List of pharaohs
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[edit] Pepi?
How accurate are the years and lengths listed for the reigns and lives of these pharoahs? How can we be sure Pepi II lived 100 years and reigned for 94? I find it doubtful that in the ancient world someone could live to 100 years old (not sayin impossible, just saying doubtful). It seems likely that there could have been some exaggeration on the part of the people who created these lists, if indeed it was one group of people. How many sources show him to have lived and reigned this long, and do those sources each stem from an original source that can confirm without question his reign?
If I'm taking this information wrongly then forgive me. I don't whether this information is all presumptive and therefore flexible or whether it is intended to be accurate. Could someone straighten the issue out or at least source it maybe?
- Although it does seem odd that someone could live for 100 years in the ancient world, the three longest reigning kings in recorded history all ruled in the third millenium BC, and that added to some other textual references to extremely old age means that somthing is likely up. However, you are partially right; there is another thesis saying he lived for only 64 years or so. However, many (if not most) egyptologists consistantly give him 94 years of reign, and as long as we have the citations for it, it can stand in wikipedia. Thanatosimii 22:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
We could say that he is said to have lived for 100 years.Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 19:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Spellings
I'm not sure where the spellings for the names in this list came from: ancient Egyptian names are transliterated into Engish according to several methods.
I compiled a list of the names of Pharaohs (& some of the major variants) at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Temp. Any interest or objections to importing them into this list? My methodology is detailed at the Talk page to that article. -- llywrch 03:43, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I just took the names that were historically in Pharaoh. Please feel free to amend. I intended to compare and copy across alternative names from Wikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Temp anyway (particularly Greek / Egyptian alternatives). There are also the chronology articles and the individual pharaoh and dynasty pages to cross-check. But if you want to get on with it, be my guest :) -- ALoan (Talk) ~
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- I know it's going to be a lot of work, & I'll probably attack it dynasty by dynasty, but I wanted to give everyone who cares a head's-up that I was going to start on this, & see what objections this might bring first. If no one else speaks up within a week, I'll start on this. -- llywrch 21:10, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Protodynastic ("Dynasty 0")
A few questions:
- Are there gaps in the separate kinglists of protodynastic Upper and Lower Egypt, or do we have complete lists?
- The Conventional Egyptian chronology page lists more protodynastic kings than this page. Are there disagreements as to whether or not certain names represent the same king?
- Are Narmer and Hor-Aha the same person?
- The U-j tomb of King "Scorpion I," from sometime between 3400 and 3200 BC- this king is not mentioned on this list (the King Scorpion of this list from ca. 3100 BC is Scorpion II, correct?).--Rob117 02:46, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
- --------------------------------------------------------
1. Yes there are gaps, there may have been multiple states which changed hands frequently.
2. Yes there are disagreements, some may have been usurpers or rivals.
3. No, they are most definately separate individuals with tombs near each other. Hor-Aha is almost certainly Narmer's immediate successor (son?).
4. Scorpian II may be Narmer, Narmer's neighboring king, or a rival to Narmer's throne. Clues are sketchy but Scorpian II seems to have ruled over Nekhen while or before Narmer was king of Abydos. At any rate, Narmer would rule Nekhen as well.--Countakeshi 12:48, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Thirteenth Dynasty
The order of the kings is in the moment not based on any evidence.
For example:
Sobekhotep I as first king is a guess.
Senbuef is simply not an Egyptian name.
Sebekemsaf I belongs to the 17th Dynasty.
King Wahibre Ibau (Turin King List colume VII, 2) is missing, and and and....
The order attested in the Turin King List (Alan H. Gardner, The Royal Canon of Turin, Oxford 1987, pl. III) would provide at least one guideline. Otherwise we know simply very little about this Dynasty. - Udimu
[edit] 22nd and 25th dynasties (Shaw dates)
These are generally accurate, but not specific enough. The dates I put in for these two dynasties were not original research; I was citing them from other Wikipedia articles that used used astronomical events to anchor an absolute chronology. These articles cited their sources. Additionally, Shaw has Shoshenq III reigning after Takelot II, but the contemoraneity of these two kings is pretty certain, see Takelot II. Likewise, the articles on Piye, Shabaka, and Shebitku have more specific reignal years. Shaw's dates for Shabaka's death and Shebitku's accession appear to be about five years off.
Is it all right if I re-enter these dates? --Rob117 16:33, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Hey Rob - I wonder if it's really vain to try to keep up with the most recent twists and turns of ancient chronological studies. It seems to me that the wisest course for a general list like this one is to base ourselves on the most recent authoritative general source, and then discuss alternative views in the articles on the pharaohs themselves. Otherwise, things start to get really complicated. john k 01:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay.--Rob117 05:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Good idea Crazy 29 15:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Oxford dates
I would suggest that we should not simply leave these as they are. They provide good approximate guidelines from which to start, but they are not exact dates. There are more specific chronologies that can be implemented for certain dynasties (Dynasties 11, 12, 18, and 22-25 especially).--Rob117 02:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Oxford dates 2
In the moment the dates of the 13th Dynasty do not fit with the dates of the 12th Dynasty. There is in the moment a gap of 4 years between the last ruler of the 12th and the first ruler of the 13th Dynasty. I do not have the Oxford dates and I do not have any strong opions regarding certain dates, because we do not know them for sure. However, somebody might solve this problem. Udimu 23:27, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, in Dynasty 12 we have an absolute anchor at year 7 of Senusret III due to a heliacal rising of Sirius. It's possible that there are co-regencies we are unaware of somewhere in either the 12th or 13th dynasty.
For now, the best thing would probably be to just leave the 4-year overlap (between Dynasties 12 and 13) alone until we get more info.--Rob117 01:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Sixteenth and Seventeenth Dynasties
For some reason, we have several kings (Djehuti, Mentuhotep VI, Nebiryerawet (Nebiriau) I & II and Seuserenre Bebiankh) belonging to both dynasties, with different dates implied. Also, there needs to be some uniformity as to whether Intef or Antef is the correct spelling of the names of the kings of the Seventeenth. Theelf29 10:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ninth Dynasty
Can anyone provide a source for this line of rulers? There appear to be numerous duplications and the Ninth Dynasty's "Menethoupe I" is, I fancy, Metuhotep I Tepy-a, normally placed at the beginning of the Eleventh Dynasty. Theelf29 10:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The 34th Dynasty
Stuck Ankhmachis and Harmachis in the middle of the Ptlomomies, Just like Kababash in the 31st. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericl (talk • contribs) 18:24, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Eighteenth Dynasty
How can you tell of Hatshepsut in Thutmose III and not tell us about her successful reign? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.80.131 (talk) 16:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
