Talk:List of nuclear holocaust fiction

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Talk:List of nuclear holocaust fiction/Original lists

Contents

[edit] Creation notes

This page was created when I spotted a large list of nuclear-themed fiction being created in Jericho (TV series), in lieu of a relevant/on topic See Also section. Lower section is a similar, but far longer list, found on The Day After. Intend to merge into a cohesive list in the next 24 hours. MrZaiustalk 04:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Found more in Threads. Added see also sections with links to this page to all articles linked to above "Films and television productions". Still to be done:

  • Link here from the other articles
  • Link to Nuclear weapons in popular culture from all articles linked to from here - If they're relevant here, the popular culture article is relevant there. (Missed this in most of the articles above "Films and television productions")
  • harvest any OTHER off-topic lists for this one
MrZaiustalk 05:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Harvested list from Nuclear Holocaust, adding several new categories MrZaiustalk 19:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] other fiction

As noted elsewhere. Comicbooks also feature nuclear weapons. There are post apolcalyptic depictions (that allude me now) but also depictions of nuclear weapons (The Hulk for example). The Dark Knight Returns features the effect of a single nuclear explosion effectively crippling the USA. AlanD 20:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Then list 'em. 198.247.174.254 00:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I will when I've gaged opinion on here. Opinions? AlanD 00:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
If it's fiction that takes place after large scale nuclear war, then it fits the bill. No need to ask permission, though. Article's brand new. Take the initiative and help create something worth keeping. If you did so at this time, you'd be one of only four users to have ever edited the article. See [1]. To determine whether any given article warrants listing here, see Nuclear Holocaust. The term refers to nuclear war that destroys or nearly destroys human civilization. MrZaiustalk 18:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I added The Punisher - The End to the list of comic books dealing with nuclear war. I hope I got the formatting right. 87.234.85.196 18:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


I think we're having an obvious miss when we are not putting Red Dawn in the Film section

Inasmuch as the film Red Dawn is the Nuclear demolition of DC, and the Invasion of the USA by Contra's Cuban Military, and the USSR

Come ON "red dawn"Therubicon (talk) 07:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

This list is for fiction that involves a nuclear holocaust, which means a full or near-full nuclear exchange. Red Dawn doesn't qualify; the Soviets use a limited strike to take out our retaliatory capability, and then invade. Xihr (talk) 22:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Caps

This article is capitalized to match the case of Nuclear Holocaust, as the term generally refers to a single, particular event, like The Holocaust in World War II. Witness the tendency to capitalize both terms outside of the wiki, as well [2]. If you care to debate this notion, do so in that article first and change both after posting Template:Move for a reasonable length of time. MrZaiustalk 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not really appropriate to complain about a supposed "undiscussed, known to be debatable move" when you yourself moved the page away from List of nuclear holocaust fiction without any form of discussion. Not worth arguing over, although Wikipedia's article naming guidelines do state:

"For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence."

The term "nuclear holocaust" is not always capitalized; the aforementioned Google search of the term reveals that the capitalized references are headlines, reverting to lower case within the body of the article. (The fact that Nuclear Holocaust is incorrectly titled is not a valid argument for mis-titling this article to match it.) I'll wait a few days for discussion before restoring the correct title, but right now the page contravenes the naming convention. --Ckatzchatspy 00:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
My main point above was that it would be better dealt with in the parent article and, more importantly, with a formal proposed move. MrZaiustalk 01:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
If it were a controversial move, then yes, a formal move request might be in order. However, this is merely a procedural matter - the page is misplaced and should be restored to its original location. (The title of the Nuclear Holocaust article is not relevant to this move - titles can be piped for esthetics i.e. nuclear holocaust.) --Ckatzchatspy 01:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I am well aware of MediaWiki link syntax. In most cases, I would agree with you. However, again, in the Nuclear Holocaust article, the wiki currently has a definition that refers to a single event for which "Nuclear Holocaust" is title as well as descriptor. The definition reads as follows: "The term "Nuclear Holocaust" compares the possible all-out nuclear war to the Holocaust." As such, the other article is highly relevant to your point, and is a more appropriate place to make it. If it's wrong here, it's wrong there, and vice versa. Seems more appropriate to discuss it in the article that includes substantive discussion of the topic, not just a list of related works.
WP:MILHIST#NAME seems to be the closest thing to a style guide for the topic at hand, seeing as the main article is currently categorized as a military stub. There's currently no explicit mention of particular conflicts or events in the Manual of Style for capitalization. MrZaiustalk 02:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Caps, revisited

The nuclear holocaust article has just been moved to the uncapitalized title, per a listing at WP:RM and accompanying discussion. It seems appropriate to suggest that this article be moved likewise; I'm not just completing the move because I see it's come up here before, so it might be best to ask first. Opinions? -GTBacchus(talk) 08:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it came up here initially, and was echoed with a move of this page shortly afterwards. MrZaiustalk 20:01, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chronological vs. Alphabetical?

I don't really see how alphabetical is "more intuitive". Alphabetical order is only relevant if one already knows the name of a film or program. Chronological order gives a better view of how the topic has been treated in popular culture over time. Pjbflynn 23:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I was going to commment on this myself when I found the above. Nihil novi 19:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Please use chronological - it's FAR easier to read and understand when looking at just about everything on wikipedia. 71.165.76.188 (talk) 08:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Title vs. entries

Not all entries fit the title and the first paragraph, as they do not picture a nuclear holocaust/massive nuclear attack. Like:

  • Sum of all Fears
  • Fail-Safe
  • Broken Arrow
  • Amerika

So: Remove the incorrect entries or adjust the first paragraph? --MushroomCloud 18:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Fail-Safe and Amerika do depict rather large scale nuclear attacks, although the last depicts a United States in which the damage was mostly limited to atmospheric bursts and EMP. I'd argue that both of those works should probably stay in the list. The other two, however, likely should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrzaius (talk • contribs) 19:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
Fail-Safe features only two nukes, one of which was deployed by accident. Amerika sports four, all of which were only used for EMP. Neither of them lead to a “holocaust” (although, admittedly, it would have been a possibility in Fail-Safe). In Fail-Safe, only two cities were destroyed (reminds me of something), and in Amerika, the USA were occupied, but under control. --MushroomCloud 21:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
On that same track, I'd argue that 24 has no place on the list either. There's no breakdown of social order, no end of public services like police, firefighters, et cetera, a return to community-centric organization by dint of all other government failing that's the hallmark of the genre. One nuke does not a holocaust make. - Random stranger.

[edit] Merge with "List of apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction"?

I would keep "List of nuclear holocaust fiction" as a separate article because:

  • the subject is prominent enough to merit separate treatment, and constitutes a long list;
  • the article is already linked to related articles for reader convenience;
  • Apocolypse could be caused by many different events such as natural factors while nuclear is a man made holocaust specifically talking about the aftermath of nuclear war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.75.244.216 (talk) 01:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
  • "List of apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction" is an unwieldy and ambiguous title (I would have called it "List of apocalypse fiction").

I would, however, propose inserting a hyphen, for clarity, between "nuclear" and "holocaust" in this article's title, because "nuclear-holocaust" comprises a single adjective that modifies the noun "fiction."

Nihil novi 19:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
After a year, consensus of those who have responded appears to be to keep the articles separate. I'm removing the merge banner from this article. The two renaming suggestions above should be handled separately. Ipoellet (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nuclear Holocaust Fiction in English?

seems no non-English fiction is included on this page, so perhaps the title should be modified. 9ulk

Or editors familiar with notable non-English nuclear holocaust fiction could start adding it to the article. There actually is at least one non-English entry in the article now, Malevil by Robert Merle. PubliusFL 18:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)