Talk:List of notable Puerto Ricans

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[edit] Descriptions of listed names

Aren't some of the entries followed by subjective, non-NPOV descriptions? Richie Ray the King of Salsa? Glenn Monroig the first Spanish rapper? Should we limit ourselves to merely occupation descriptions and nicknames, and leave such descriptors for the articles themselves? Demf 14:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Media people, not necessarily performers

Luciano Quiñones was my piano teacher (I wasn't a good student, but that's another story...) Gilbert Mamery was my boss. Luciano has made his defense of Puerto Rican danza a labor of love and is highly commendable for doing so. However, Gilbert was a giant of Puerto Rican media and the über-collector extraordinaire. Yet Luciano can be easily listed as a musician, while Gilbert would have to be listed as an... industrialist? How do we approach this case? Demf 14:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we list the people alphabeticaly?

IMO we should. I could get started, but I wansted to see what would you guys preffer: doing it by name or by lastname?Nnfolz 05:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Shouldn't we do it by last name?

[edit] Criteria

The article used to have a link to inclusion criteria. I am moving the link here because articles shouldn't link to project space, and editorial strategies should be discussed here on the talk page... not in the article. -- cmh 00:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The link is not a "project space". I is the criteria of what is expected. It was agreed as such by consensus. If we unlink the "criteria" then the list will become a "mess" like so many other lists in the pedia. The image of Our flag is PD and of "Free use". Please respect our wishes. Tony the Marine 01:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

With respect, no one "owns" pages, and so I am not sure whose wishes you are referring to. However, I will concede on the point of the image. It does not seem like it is adding to the article to me, but if there is consensus (where, by the way?) then I will concede. I am, however, removing the link to the "project space" once again. It is the one that points into Wikipedia: internal pages (Wikipedia:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Notability Criteria in this case). This is inappropriate because we do not put information about HOW to edit wikipedia into a wikipedia article. That content belongs here, on the talk page. -- cmh 05:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


I believe that I understand how the Pedia works. Go to my User Page and you'll see that I'm not "new" here. Now, if would like to know what "we" Puerto Ricans in the community have discussed you can go here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Puerto_Rico#List_of_Puerto_Ricans. Maybe we "don't" own the articles but, that doesn't give "you" the right to rewrite the article to your personal believes. Show me the place in policy where it states that this criteria cannot posted as we wish. What is your problem here? If you don't agree with me take up to arbitration. Tony the Marine 15:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

  • O.K., first this is a "List" not an "article". Second, the criteria is a "guideline" to be considered in the "highly notable" list. It is "not" a statement on "HOW" to edit wikipedia. I asked User:Guettarda to make the apropiate fixes. Thank you Tony the Marine 18:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the wording at the top could be adjusted to sound more descriptive - right now it reads like a set of instructions. If the link is unacceptable, then the criteria should somehow be incorporated into the article lead, as footnoted from the article lead. But the criteria need to be readily accessible from the article, rather than the Talk page. The talk page should link back to the WikiProject, but that's a separate matter. Guettarda 17:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with this article include Content Forking, OR, POV

Ok. I am not invested in this article enough to want to force changes, however I do think there are some things here that do not mesh with general guidelines on how Wikipedia articles should be edited (note that lists are articles). I believe these will eventually be addressed by wider Wikipedia community, so editors working here might want to take note of outside opinion. I have no doubt that your group of editors has come to a consensus on how and why to create this list, but I believe that isn't going to override larger wikipedia policies and practises.

  • First, this page appears to be a content fork from List of Puerto Ricans... the topic should be treated on one page, not two.
  • Second, the criteria have problems with original research (developing criteria yourselves rather than citing reliable sources for them) and neutral point of view (your views of who merits inclusion and not can never be neutral). Yes, groups of editors can have consensus on a topic, but this should not go against wikipedia-wide consensus on style and policy.
  • Third, you should not refer to or make links to internal pages from article pages. If the criteria are important enough to be displayed to the readers (which IMHO they are not) then they should be incorporated within the article itself. Any editorial advice should be on talk pages only.

I urge you to seek out, rather than attack, opinions of editors from outside your community as I think the article will benefit. Otherwise I think you can expect others to drop by from the random article link (as I did) and make similar changes and comments. -- cmh 18:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, you have no argument man. Question: what are the exact wikipedia policies that this article/list violates? Please list them. The notability criteria should be in a separate page, ¿why? cuz it just looks better and its more encyclopedic that way. Most of the people coming here don't really care about all the tech specs that you expect the editors to follow. People come here expecting to find a list and not a page with stuff that only those who work 'behind the scenes' in wikipedia care about. Another question: why remove the image? does it bothers you? does it messes wit the look of the article? Please state whatever it is that is bothering you clearly, because all I read are faulty arguments that look official because they have links to official wikipedia pages.Nnfolz 04:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I've laid out my arguments in this section. I can see that I'm not changing anyone's mind here, so I'll leave it to future visitors to take this up. -- cmh 14:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

My friends, Colin has made some valid points with his observations. In order to address the issues involved I have asked our friend User:Guettarda to please look into it so that the appropiate fixes can be made. He told me that he will as soon as he's done with his finals. I expect this to put an end to any conflict of interest between the two articles. Tony the Marine 00:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sub-divide sections

I think sections should be divided as much as possible. For example, dividing the notable Puerto Ricans in Sports by type of sport (i.e. baseball, boxing, etc.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mtmelendez (talk • contribs) 21:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Removal of names and rationale

  • Removal of Dr. Jose O. Colon Ruiz because he fails to meet any of the criteria. Although the authors has written some books, he still fails to meet the notability criteria. Charleenmerced 15:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)Charleenmerced
  • Removal of "Bernabe Serrano, Genius, comedian and producer, pioneer in Virginia Theme parks" for failing to meet notability criteria. I was not even able to find anything on a google search under the terms: Bernabe Serrano theme parks, Bernabe Serrano Virignia, Bernabe Serrano comedian. Further, the description seems bias: genius? in what way? If you find I am mistaken, please discuss it in this area.Charleenmerced talk Image:SoleteRayosÑajo.gif‎ 17:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Charleenmerced
  • Does this refer to Puerto Rican Nationalist that were imprisoned for a shooting at the steps of Congress and recently pardoned? If so, I think a general heading of PR Nationalists involved in x events, then the names - should be added because it was important to the political atmosphere of Puerto Rico at the time and still had effect on the present.Charleenmerced Talk 03:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)Charleenmerced
    • Assassine - Nationalist operatives,Griselio Torresola (1925 – November 1, 1950) born in Jayuya, Puerto Rico, was one of two Puerto Rican Nationalists who attempted to assassinate United States President Harry Truman. During the attack on the president, Torresola mortally wounded White House policeman Private Leslie Coffelt and wounded two other law enforcement officers. Torresola was killed by a shot to the head from the mortally wounded Coffelt. and OscarCollazo(January 20, 1914 – February 21, 1994) born in Florida, Puerto Rico, was one of two Puerto Ricans who attempted to assassinate President Harry S. Truman.After Oscar release from leavenworth USP he traveled and In 1987 Oscar Collazo walked to city of Jayuya cemetery with RafaelCancelMeranda to pay his personal respects to the grave of GrecilioTorresola located in the towns square.
  • Note: Griselio Torresola is already listed in the "Politicians" section as "Griselio Torresola, one of two nationalists who attempted to assassinate". This is due to the fact that he was a member of a Political Party and the incident was politically motivated. Only a short statement about the person should follow the name on the list. Tony the Marine 03:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Ricardo Aponte is the first Puerto Rican to be named Director, J-7, of the United States Southern Command, located in Miami, Florida and to be selected by the USAF as the Spanish Language Narrator for the U.S. Air Force Demonstration Squadron, The Thunderbirds. Tony the Marine 04:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
    • You are gonna hate me for this but, so? I still don't see the notability. I can see why the 1st PRican to fire the first shot in WW 1 or 2 is notable but why this? I think this is more prestigious than notable and I think there is a difference between the 2. I think this also goes for Alberto Diaz, Jr., Diego E. Hernandez. I think this is analogous to company CEOs or president. I don't think just because Fulano de tal is the CEO of a company he is necessarily notable, he just holds a prestigious position. Charleenmerced Talk 05:09, 25 March 2007

So? These men have accomplished feats and are in military positions that no other Puerto Rican or for that matter Hispanic, have been in within the military. Considering all the anti-Hispanic sentiment in the past and present, thier accomplishments as being the "first" in thier fields are quite notable. If they were non-notable their bios would have been deleted within NN policy. No, I'm not going to hate you, you know that. Try not to worry too much about the military section, I'm always on the lookout for that. Tony the Marine 17:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


    • I have to side with Tony on this one, Charleenmerced. Wikipedia policy on meeting notability is defined as "being the subject of secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." All these articles have proper external secondary sources, which seem to meet such criteria. Hence, the article meets notability per policy. If you still doubt their notability, then you should verify the sources to see if they meet the criteria as independent secondary sources, and then bring your conclusions here. Your arguments are well intended Charleenmerced, but these articles seem to check out. - Mtmelendez (TALK|UB|HOME) 21:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I've included in the Sports-Other isting several prominent sports figures, including multifaceted José Enrique Arrarás, a former PROC president who currently heads the LAI, the Intercollegiate Athletic League, María Elena Batista, San Juan's Sports Administrator, whose previous achievements have been outdone by the inauguration last week of the San Juan Golf Academy and driving range atop the former sanitary landfill, a dramatic reuse of that land, Héctor Cardona, the current, and embattled, president of the PROC and Richard Carrión, the Puerto Rican who has scaled the highest within the IOC, chairing its Finance Committee.Pr4ever 03:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gaspar Roca

I've added the name of the recently deceased founder and editor of El Vocero, Gaspar Roca. In additrion to founding Puerto Rico's second-highest circulation daily newspaper, he is notable for having financed multiple succesful freedom-of-information lawsuits that have contributed to the people's right-to-know. I intend to write an article about him.Pr4ever 01:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)