Talk:List of naval ships of Germany

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[edit] "DKM" prefix consistency; one or two Lützows?

Two questions: 1) Wasn't "DKM" used as the prefix on all Kriegsmarine ship names, including battleships and aux cruisers? If so, why aren't we consistent about that in our link names? And 2) Is the Lützow that is listed under Pocket battleships the same as the one listed under Heavy cruisers? --Wernher 01:22, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There were two Lützows in the Kriegsmarine. The first was a heavy cruiser of the Hipper class, sold uncompleted to the Soviet Union in 1939. Subsequently, the former Deutschland (pocket battleship/heavy cruiser) was renamed Lützow.Cosal 02:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
This has come up a couple times - so far no one has presented any evidence or usage examples showing that "DKM" was ever official in the way that "HMS" or "USS" are. Some articles are under DKM because of ill-advised moves ( some people feel really compelled to have a ship prefix, have a hard time believing that they might not have been used :-) ). Stan 07:00, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the clarification. One should perhaps research this a little more. Also, contrary to the "DKM" prefix, do we know for sure that the "SMS" prefix was actually used? --Wernher 22:17, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure about that one, although now that I go look for a definitive statement in my library, I can't find one. :-) One little cheat is to go look at the German WP, presumably they tend to be more familiar with their own ships. Stan 23:21, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
SMS (meaning His Majesty's Ship) was definitely used for all Imperial cruisers and capital ships. DKM was never used on ships' names; it is merely an occasionally used abbreviation for Deutsche Kriegsmarine.Cosal 00:48, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
SMS was the only prefix officially used in Germany, and only during the period of the Imperial Navy (i.e. up to 1919). DKM is a western creation (presumably of English-speaking war historians), and FGS likewise is a monikor slapped down by NATO, not officially utilized internally by Germany, and not officially prefix to the name of a ship. This is similar to the situation in France with FS. Joshbaumgartner 17:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obsolete battleships of DKM renamed SMS's?

I would guess that the two by-then old battleships Schleswig-Holstein and Schleisen was most probably renamed battleships from the Kaiserliche Marine. Anyone know something about this? --Wernher 01:29, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_battleships
Yes, they were old pre-dreadnaughts which Germany was allowed to retain after the Treaty of Versailles. They weren't really battleships any longer, but merely artillery training ships.Cosal 00:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Term "Fast Attack Craft" should be "Fast Patrol Boat"

The correct term for the vessels listed under "Fast Attack Craft" should be "Fast Patrol Boats". The term Fast Patrol Boat (FPB) is the official NATO referrence to vessels of this size, speed and armament. The abbreviation FPBG is used to mark FPB vessels with guided missiles.

See this page for examples. The table lists the official NATO referrences as I have come to know them during my service. These should be used to categorize the vessels to avoid confusion.

--polarapfel 16:04, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If "Fast Patrol Boat" is the official term used by Germany, then we should make the change. Joshbaumgartner 23:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The German term is "Schnellboot" ("fast boat"), and they were equipped with torpedos, later also guided missiles, and intended to attack (and then evade) enemy ships at high speed. While it is correct that they were/are intended for coastal protection against potential invadors, this does not justify calling them patrol boats. In WWII Germany used converted fish cutters and other small craft as patrols and lookouts, calling them "Vorpostenboot". They were very lightly armed, often with nothing more than a 20 mm gun or a heavy machine gun.Cosal 01:01, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Schnelboot is what I've seen as their German name. I know terms like 'patrol boat' and such have been adopted by some countries to avert the more offensive connotations of 'attack boat', but if Germany hasn't officially adopted this move, then we shouldn't attach it just because NATO has. WP guidelines are to defer to the terminology in use in the country which the article is relative to, in this case Germany. The vessels in question meet the generic definition of a fast attack craft, and I think it is fair to refer to them as such. 70.185.31.52 08:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
"Patrol Boats" in German use generally got the designation Wachboot ("guard boat"; this is also sometimes used in German to refer to foreign patrol boats). A Wachboot is similarly armed to the above-mentioned WW2 Vorpostenboot, though sometimes somewhat heavier as well. The Bundesmarine only had few dedicated Wachboote: the boats with "UW" designations listed as Type 149 (former E-boats) in the List of German Federal Navy ships, as well as the others in that class listed under P designations. Other Wachboote with a W designation were operated by the Bundesgrenzschutz, before they received a BGS and further on a BP (for Bundespolizei) designation.
The Bundesmarine term is Schnellboot for what we're discussing here, and always refers to some sort of attack craft armed with either torpedoes or missiles in addition to guns. This is commonly known as a FAC in international use. However, within NATO scope, all Bundesmarine Schnellboote received a P (for Patrol) hull designation, like all FACs within NATO. Kato2k6 16:11, 11 March 2007 (UTC)