Talk:List of mountains in Peru

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[edit] Error on Salcantay and maybe others

Resolved. Typo in INEI 2005 source, Salcantay is in Cordillera Vilcabamba not Vilcanota

This list says the Salcantay is in the Cordillera Vilcanota, but both our internal Salcantay article and external sources such as peakbagger.com say it's in the Cordillera Vilcabamba, and there may be other similar errors. I'm going to fix Salcantay now, but I suggest maintainers of this list double-check the rest. — Komusou talk @ 04:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

That's the info provided by INEI, the Peruvian national statistics office. If you want to make changes please provide an equally valid source. --Victor12 04:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I realize it's official data; but official reports have been wrong before, too ;-) Actually, I have NPOVed it (so to speak) by providing both versions, with an endnote specifying that the first version comes from the INEI source, and the other version from other credible sources. Independently of the "good answer" (if there's one), there was one larger issue of consistency here: this list was saying "A" yet sending the reader to an article saying "B". So, I have tried to source to death the contradictory claims on our main article Salcantay, as a repository of the sources about it. And now, both articles say "A or B" with footnotes sourcing each claim. It's not just Peakbagger.com but also Encarta, and tons of other websites that are contradicting the INEI information, so that really is enough to list both versions for now; the readers are given the sources for both claims and can make up their mind, until something better can explain the discrepancy (maybe the report 2006 or 2007 will have it "fixed"?). I have no idea if that's a typo in the INEI report (I'm taking your word for it), or some other reason, but it's far from clear and we currently can't give the readers a single one version. — Komusou talk @ 07:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, good job! I'll try to do some research on this later. --Victor12 13:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Some notes:

  • From maps such as this one from Nikon.co.jp we can see "Vilcabamba mountain range (Mt. Salcantay)" to the west of Cuzco and "Vilcanota mountain range (Mt. Ausangate)" to the east of Cuzco.
  • Most sources usually claim Salcantay as the highest peak of Vilcabamba Range, and Ausangate as the highest peak of Vilcanota Range.
  • In a trek report of a guy from Standford, he did "Salcantay in the Cordillera Vilcabamba"
  • One big problem with trying to sort this with the web is that most "sources" are tour operators and trek sites, not the most scholarly references, especially since a lot of them just plunder Wikipedia and can feed us our own errors. At any rate, most of them say Salcantay is in Vilcabamba Range, but still plenty other say it's in Vilcanota (such as [1][2][3][4]), so it's either an unsorted point or a common error.
  • Interestingly, the homepage of trek site Salkantay.org says both cordilleras in the same breath (emphasis mine): « The Cordillera Vilcanota is an impressive range of mountains which include the massive Salkantay snowcapped mountain (6,264m) and three others over 6000m. Salkantay is an outstanding snow peak, located less than fifty miles northwest of the city of Cuzco in south central Peru. It is the highest mountain of the Cordillera Vilcabamba. »
  • Maybe indeed Vilcabamba is considered by some to be a subrange of Vilcanota? Or it's just a common error due to the proximity of Vilcanota and Vilcabamba, both phonetically and geographically...

— Komusou talk @ 11:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I rechecked the Compendio estadístico and it seems this whole confusion was indeed a typo!!! lol. It lists 11 peaks for Cordillera Vilcanota which is 80 km long. Then it lists 3 more peaks for a second Cordillera Vilcanota with a length of 100 km. This second one includes Salcantay, Pumasillo and Lasunayoc. As Cordillera Vilcabamba is not included anywhere in this report, it is quite likely that the second Vilcanota is actually a typo for Vilcabamba. --Victor12 15:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I also checked an atlas published in 1996 by Instituto de Estudios Histórico–Marítimos del Perú (again an official source ;-) to see what's the relationship between these mountain ranges. According to this book they are separate mountain range even though they start from the same point, the Vilcanota Knot (in Spanish, knots or nudos are places where several mountain ranges meet), which is between the Cusco and Puno Regions. They then run in parallel in a NW course, Vilcanota is the eastern one and Vilcabamba the western one. This books identifies the Ausangate in the Vilcabamba mountain range. It doesn't mention where Salcantay belongs, though. I'll try to get more sources on this on Tuesday. --Victor12 16:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
— Re: typo:
Quite likely indeed:
* From all other sources, Vilcabamba's 3 highest peaks ARE Salcantay, Pumasillo and Lasunayoc ;-) Vilcabamba at Peakbagger.
* If you look at the table, your list has the peaks in decreasing order for each cordillera, but the first 11 Vilcanota go from "Ausangate 6,384" to "Yayamari 6,000", before jumping back to "Salcantay 6,271 - Pumasillo 6,070 - Lasunayoc 6,000", which also indicates that the last three are a separate batch from the previous Vilcanota batch.
I think we can now safely conclude that it's a typo and that the last three items tagged Vilcanota were meant as "Vilcabamba". I'm going to update the list with a note explaining why we deviate from the source.
— Re: "atlas published in 1996"
Er... Did you type that correctly, "This books identifies the Ausangate in the Vilcabamba"? Because Ausangate is the highest of *Vilcanota* not Vilcabamba. Either in the document or in your post above, that's the reverse typo from the INEI one ;-) — Komusou talk @ 21:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
LOL, my typo indeed. It's Vilcanota. Now I understand those poor guys at INEI :-) --Victor12 22:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other problems in INEI

  • There'll be another issue, which is that many heights of the INEI list seems to be, er, "cooked". I found it strange that so much heights were exactly 6,000 m, especially when the criterion was precisely 6,000 m too. Also, the Pucahirca is listed twice. In fact, sources such as Peakbagger give very different values, especially:
Comparison of some data from INEI and other sources
Peak Height
(INEI)		 Height
(Peakbagger)		 Cordillera Comment
Pucahirca 6,100 6050 Blanca Pucahirca twice in INEI?
Pucahirca 6,036 Blanca Pucahirca twice in INEI?
Chillone 6,000 Chila name not found, no other source, maybe "peak Chilla"?[5]
Coropuna 6,425 6405 Ampato listed in Cordillera Chila not Ampato[6]
Solimana 6,117 6093 Ampato listed in Cordillera Chila not Ampato[7]
Sabancaya 6,040 5976 Ampato tweaked to make 6000+?[8]
Sara Sara 6,000 5506 Ampato tweaked to make 6000? and listed in Apurimac-Calpamayo[9]
Hualyoc 6,007 Vilcanota name doesn't exists on Google except this list, alt. spelling?
Cayangate 6,001 6110 Vilcanota as "Callangate", error at 6001?[10]
Yayamari 6,000 6049 Vilcanota error at 6000?[11]
Pumasillo 6,070 5991 (Vilcabamba) tweaked to make 6000+?[12]
Lasunayoc 6,000 5960 (Vilcabamba) tweaked to make 6000?[13]
Palomani 6,100 Apolobamba tweaked to make 6000+? other sources say 5723[14] or 5730[15] or 5768[16] or 5920[17]
Halancoma 6,000 Urubamba tweaked to make 6000? other source say 5367m[18]

— Komusou talk @ 21:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

As for Pucahirca, this mountain exists of several peaks: Southern, Northern and Central, that's why it's listed more than once. --ErickAgain 21:59, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Too many 6,000 m peaks, yes... I'll try to get better sources. No luck on Proquest, so that means I'll have to hit the library. --Victor12 22:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Seems we have to lose Alpamayo (5947 or 5957) also. Take a look at the following list:
Excerpt from Peakbagger Andes 6000-meter Peaks
See also Highest Mountains in Peru.
No. Name Elevation (m)
101. Rasac 6017
97. Hualca Hualca 6025
97. Caraz 6025
94. Tocllaraju 6034
93. Quitaraju 6036
89. Yayamari 6049
88. Pucajirca 6050
84. Nevado Chachani 6057
74. Jatunhuma 6093
74. Nevado Solimana 6093
73. Jirishanca 6094
69. Jatunriti 6106
67. Chacraraju 6108
66. Callangate 6110
63. Yerupaja Chico 6121
61. Hualcan 6122
54. Pucaranra 6156
52. Ranrapalca 6162
47. Nevado Copa 6188
40. Santa Cruz 6241
39. Salcantay 6264
37. Palcaraju 6274
34. Nevado Ampato 6288
33. Chinchey 6309
30. Siula Grande 6344
29. Nevado Chopicalqui 6345
28. Huandoy 6360
26. Huantsan 6369
25. Nevado Ausangate 6372
23. Nevado Coropuna 6405
13. Yerupajá 6617
10. Nevado Huascarán-Pico Norte 6655
6. Nevado Huascarán 6746
--ErickAgain 22:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
We can always extend the list to all 5,000+ m peaks to keep Alpamayo and its pic, as long as we can sort our problems with sources. --Victor12 22:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
– Re: ErickAgain (Pucahirca twice): Good catch! But then, the list as it is remains confusing to the average reader, so each entry should have a qualifier about which sub-peak it is. Finding which is which isn't so easy, because there are, again, discrepancy between sources. On the one hand there's the list your provided from AllTheMountains.com, and on the other hand there's this other handy source http://www.andes-mesili.com/fr/les6000desandes.htm (with a large bibliography):
Data about the three Pucahirca subpeaks from INEI and other sources
INEI Andes-Mesili.com AllTheMountains.com Peakbagger.com
Pucahirca
6100		 Purcahica Sur (sic, typo)
6100		 Pucahirca Sur
6039		 (no subpeaks)
Pucahirca
6,036		 Pucahirca Norte
6050		 Pucahirca Norte
6046		 Pucajirca (sic, J)
6050
(not listed) Pucahirca Central
6010		 Pucahirca Central
6014		 (no subpeaks)
That's still a bit confusing (not counting the typo on "Purcahica"):
* Pucahirca Sur is way off between Andes-Mesili and AllTheMountains. Also, AllTheMountains says that "Pucahirca Sur" is called "Pucahirca Central" in the Carta Nacional, which doesn't help any one bit. And Peakbagger can't help here because they says they don't list subpeaks.
* It's funny how the "Pucahirca Central: 6.010m" is missing from the INEI list (since they seem to have cooked a few numbers so as to push them above 6000, but this 6010 isn't listed ;-)
Anyway, I'm going to add the qualifiers to the current list, going for "Sur" and "Norte". I'm not adding "Central" because it's too fishy for that at this stage. — Komusou talk @ 10:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] October 2007 changes

After a prolly-well-meaning new editor tried to update/delete half the table, I made those changes:

  • Changed the lead section's criterion from 6000m to 5500m (we had previously discussed going down to 5000, but the most dubious peak in the list was "Sara Sara 6,000 vs. 5506" so 5500 should do for now to keep and update the list.)
  • I'll try and source the elevation in the articles for Alpamayo, Huascarán, Taulliraju/Tocllaraju, and Yerupajá Grande so as to be able to contradict the INEI source and update the table here with related endnotes (the way I did for Salcantay and the previous deviations from INEI). Sourcing the other problematic peaks is open to volunteers... ;-)
  • Unrelated: I've not-overlinked in the table each instance of region and range, so that each line is now independant. (When you use the table's sortable columns, you lose sight of the only bluelink for each region/range, so each line need to be independently linked).

— Komusou talk @ 14:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reg. mentioned typo in INEI

There seems to be a confusion about the peaks. I have consulted an older source which as cited source have Anuario Estadístico del Perú 1971, Oficina Nacional de Estadística y Censos, Lima - Peru, tomo 3, pág 165-170. It also puts the three peaks Sarcantay(as spelled) 6271, Pumasillo 6070 and Lasunayoc 6000 in a second Cordillera Vilcanota, 100 km long. So, if it is some typo, it did not arise as late as 2005. A list of all peaks more than 5000 I have long ago put in the Swedish wiki sv:Bergskedjor i Peru, if for some value. Best regards – Xauxa (talk) 10:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)