Talk:List of motorcycle manufacturers

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WikiProject Motorcycling List of motorcycle manufacturers is within the scope of the Motorcycling WikiProject, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of motorcycles and motorcycling. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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Does anybody know the full name of the "AMC" referred to in this article? If so, please fix the link, as it currently points to a disambiguation page, and the disambiguation page doesn't list this particular company. Aerion 16:24, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Not really - I've a sneaking suspicion it was associated motorcycles. It was the amalgamation of AJS and Matchless and was just called AMC - all parts were still labelled AJS or matchless and they became interchangeable. I'll ask as the factory was nearby in Plumstead (near Woolwich, London, UK).

216.135.67.180 wrote the comment to: "*Yankee — USA - i like these" -- but it shouldn't be in the article

Contents

[edit] Nationality Sometimes Difficult to Say

Sherco is announced as being a Spanish company, when actually it is a French company. Its trials models are made in Spain but its enduro models and its foundations are in France. The full name of the company is "Sherco Moto S.A.R.L.". "S.A.R.L." meaning "Société Anonyme a Responsabilité Limité", the French equivalent of the American "L.L.C.". The Spanish version is "S.A.p.A.".

Sources: - Bottom of the Web site http://www.sherco.com for company's full name - Wikipedia for types of corporations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_corporations WhiteEcho 17:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

It is very difficult these days to keep up with the nationality of a marque. If indeed there is such a thing, with modern cross-border mergers, it is not as clearcut as it was in the past. Norton, originally a UK firm, for example, was being revived in the US, while it is expected that the defunct US Indian, with the rights bought by a British investor, will reappear soon as a UK company. Meanwhile formerly Swedish firms Husqvarna and Husaberg are, respectively, Italian (owned by the Caviga) and Austrian (recently purchased by KTM). In light of all this (and more) should there be some kind of dual nationality listed (original/contemporary)? Or perhaps some disclaimer that says nationality may not be up to date? Also does it matter if a make is owned by an Italian company, but still manufactured in Sweden, for example? What if in that case, development goes on at the new headquarters while manufacturing is still done in the old location? Anyone have any thoughts on how to deal with this?RUReady2Testify 21:52, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Well there are always going to be complexities like Sherco, Husky, Husaberg, etc. There is a clear issue of joint companies like Sherco. Ones that have moved lock stock and barrel - ie Husky and Husaberg are clear line in the sand jobs, for some purposes, eg modern usage its important to know that they are Italian and Austrian respectively while in historic contexts its very important to know they are Swedish. The plethora of defunct British (or American) names that are or are not making revivals on the other side of the pond is a tad more complex. AFAIK in most contexts i can conceive Norton, AJS, etc are considered and are in most contexts British.... Pickle 01:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous

  • Forgot to log in, American Ironhorse (added) and Bimota (moved) changes are mine.
  • Dnipro seems to be a Honda importer to the Ukrane, not a manufacturer Dnipro Page
  • Should mfg websites be included with each listing or as a line under External? It would seem like a waste of space to do it under External. I don't care either way.

Tirdun 15:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)Tirdun

DniproMotorInvest is the Honda importer to the Ukraine, KMZ is the manufacturer of a motorcycle branded Dnepr(Russian)/Dnipro(Ukrainian). The two entities are unrelated. M-72 07:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of the "Gagiva" brand. See under "Motorcycle manufacturers no longer in production"

It's Caviga, it's Italian. It makes MV Agusta, Caviga (used to be mostly small bikes and scooters) and recently acquired Husqvarna. See http://www.cagiva.it/ RUReady2Testify 21:52, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Names in bold

Okay, maybe I didn't look deep enough, but there's no explanation of what the names in bold are. Bigger than $XX million in sales? Someone please help... Bastique▼parler voir 14:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks subjective, unless someone clarifies the bolding scheme on the page, I suggest it be stripped. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 14:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flag of Italy Italy — Italian motorcycles in production — really??

Are all the many manufacturers listed under "Motorcycle manufacturers in production" in Italy actually still producing motorcycles? Hard to believe.

Perhaps this section should be cleaned up.

Jeff dean 17:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you all prepared for the 700-800 or so Chinese manufacturers that make motorcycles? Or should we let you all rest in your American delusion that nothing happens outside of the US.M-72 14:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I've recently added all 6 templates to this list, that WikiProject Motorcycling has made - see here. The British one is at the most advanced design stage, and at some point i intend to bring the other 5 up to this standard, and maybee make a few more countries (let me know if any is desperate for a particualr country to be done).

I've also created a box for trials, i might make a few more for other sports, or other purpose if anyone can think of them... Pickle 21:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

v • d • e
Current motorcycle trials manufacturers

Beta · Gas Gas · Montesa · Sherco · Scorpa

[edit] U.S. Manufacturers - What is a manufacturer?

I've rv'ed Jeff Deans mass deletion of U.S manufacturers on the basis that a quick google-search of several, produced websites indicating that they manufactured bikes. Deletion should be made on facts, not suspicions. One or two seem to be only badge engineered bikes. Are they manufacturers? Is a company that only produces a handful of bikes a year a manufacturer? Is someone that only assembles bikes from other companies components a manufacturer? Badge engineering is almost as old as motorcycle manufacture - bikes are often known by a totally different name in different countries. Many extremely famous and influential companies were very low volume manufacturers. Any comments? M-72 05:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

My only question would be did you put back only the ones for which you found evidence? That would make sense. Jeff dean 14:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
re recent deletions, can you lot establish a criteria for inclusion. There is a vast difference between volume manufactures and specialist manufacture, perhaps the list should reflect this as both types are notable... ??? Pickle 18:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
M-72 wants to leave anything and everything in the USA list. Frankly, I have put a number of fictional, fake maufacturers there to see if anyone cares about veracity. When I deleted all the "red" listings and left only those with Wiki pages, I was accused by M-72 of vandalism. I thought it was appropriate clean-up, apparently wrongly. So, you can go ahead and list whatever nonsense fictional "manufacturers" you want, but for heaven's sake, don't delete any of the nonsense of you will be called a vandal. Go figure. Jeff dean 19:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
When the first brand you deleted shows up in a Google search as a long time manufacturer, it merely shows that you are too lazy to do any valid research. To place fictitous brands in the listing indicates childishness and a disregard for the intention of Wikipaedia. There are several brands within the deleted group that I don't personally consider to be manufacturers, but since their is NO definition to follow in this regard, I've done what I've asked to do in the past and accepted "good faith" on the part of the original poster. That few people are interested in U.S, brands doesn't really surprise me. Maybe a mass deletion of your own fiction would be a good idea followed by a little research and even maybe some discussion as to what constitutes a manufacturer. M-72 08:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that this list does not follow the list guideline. There should be a lead that gives criteria for inclusion in the list. As it stands, I could build a bike in my back yard and include myself in the list. I would suggest limiting the list to motorcycle manufacturers who have received notice or writeups in multiple non-trivial third-party sources. A shop just having a website stating that they've been building motorcycles for over thirty years would not suffice. Or limit the list to manufacturers who mass produce motorcycles and create another list for custom motorcycle manufacturers. Killa Kitty 13:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting to see that Jeff Dean has failed to remove his vandalism of U.S manufacturers, but has engaged in childish vandalism of Australian manufacturers. Nevermind his admitted use of sock puppets. Truly a valued user to these pages. M-72 12:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Good points made about list criteria and badge engineering by Killa Kitty and M-72.

As for what makes a make eligible for the list, I think it is acceptable at this stage (fairly well along in development, but still under development) to apply an informal notion of what makes are generally accepted as makes rather than custom shop made to order bikes. I think if there is a dealer franchise system is another good indicator; the custom builders do not have dealer networks they sell all their bikes on premisis and most are made to order, so there wouldn't be much of a dealer's showroom.

As for the venerable practise of badge engineering and what makes a make, remember that Triumph, BSA, Brough Superior, and many other British and American makes (but not Indian or H-D) started out by building chasssis inhouse and installing brought-in engines (made by J.A.P., Villiers and others). So I would say bought in engines from S&S or Rotax or Yamaha and so on do not disqualify a builder from being a make or a marque.

I like M-72's acceptance of a editor's good faith in adding a make. If one can be factually researched and eliminated, I think that would be OK too. Others that are marginal could be put up for discussion, allowing the original editor to participate in making his case for inclusion and in the vote, if any. RUReady2Testify 22:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The time to properly discuss "What is a manufacturer?" is probably upon us. Many of the recent, especially U.S. manufacturers, are perhaps more properly described as "customisers". Given previous discussions, can a concensus view be established as to what constitutes a manufacturer? M-72 (talk) 02:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Defunct Makes

I think AJS is back in business. The new firm appears to claim to be a successor to the old firm, click link on company history.

http://www.ajsmotorcycles.co.uk/

RUReady2Testify 21:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hard to read

Hard

These lists are confusing. What are the dark bars? Looking for the famous British brand Vincent, all I found was a red-linked U. S. (!?) brand. Only by clicking on and opening up one of the dark barks did I find Vincent. Why is it hidden? 07:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

For information on the bars, read Talk:List_of_motorcycle_manufacturers#Template. The defunct U.K. firm is found under List_of_motorcycle_manufacturers#Motorcycle_manufacturers_no_longer_in_production and the U.S. firm has not yet had an article created about it. M-72 (talk) 00:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)