Talk:List of motorcycle gangs

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[edit] Hell's Satans

I don't quite understand why Hell's Satans ought to link to a Simpsons site. either 1) the Hell's Satans are a real group of bikers, then i can't see why the link should lead to a parody on them; or 2) the Hell's Satan are a fictional group only existing in a Simpsons episode, then they should be removed from the list. or did i get something wrong? greetings, Flechtwerk 12:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Whichever is the correct answer, don't make a redlink if you're not sure that such a group really exists. I'd rather see a separate section under the heading "Fictional motorcycle gangs" at the bottom of the page than remove the Hell's Satans completely. Wipe 14:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Why? If the Hell's Satans only exist in the Simpson's episode, then the brief mention they get here should be enough. Wikipedia is an on-line encyclopedia, not a TV trivia game. It's enough work to try to manage a list of real (either historic or current) motorcycle gangs, and differentiate them from the other 99 percent of real motorcycle clubs without having to include fictional gangs. Garth of the Forest 06:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this list meaningful?

A lot of the organizations listed here have either been patched over into other gangs (mostly into the Big Four), or currently operate as "puppet gangs" for one of the "Big Four" or some other larger gang. Others are likely bogus (see discussion above), or for other reasons currently unknown (i.e. is Y Rohirrim an actual motorcycle gang, or has someone visiting here seen and/or read The Lord of the Rings a few too many times?), don't belong here in this list. Is there some acceptable way we can make this list more useful, i.e. by somehow indicating in what region (and era) the gang is (or was) active, and what their current status is, short of writing a whole bunch of (very) short articles about former biker gangs or "wannabee" biker gangs that probably don't warrant an article of their very own? Garth of the Forest 06:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem I see with this list is that there is no consensus definition of motorcycle gang. The groups listed here, mostly motorcycle clubs are placed here solely based on one editors opinion that they are a gang. We could change the title to List of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs (OMGs), which is an official FBI/Criminal Intelligence Service Canada (CISC) designation, thus providing verifiable criteria for inclusion. Additionally, being listed as an OMG by FBI/CISC automatically imputes notability, and therefore makes an article about such a group possible.

So, as I see it, there are three options here:

  • Leave this article as is
  • Rename this article to List of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
  • AFD this article and create a new List of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs

Thoughts and/or suggestions? Mmoyer 01:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Good feedback. One thing I do appreciate about this list is that it includes some clubs that are no longer operating under that name but are of historical significance. While there may not be a consensus definition of "motorcycle gang", a pragmatic way of making the distinction between a "motorcycle club" and the subset term "gang" is whether or not the club uses a three piece patch or not, where the bottom rocker typically designates a state, province, city, or other significant region of operation (or, in the case of the Hell's Angels, the special lower rocker "Nomads"). The other giveaways are the use of the patches "MC" and/or "one-percenter". For example, if you visit the website for the Iron Indian Riders Association (a "99-percenter" club, definitely not a "gang"), and read the "Requirements, Guidelines, and Benefits" section, they very clearly forbid members from wearing three piece patches on the backs of their jackets, or any chapter location bars or lower rockers indicating a state, territory, city, or other region, and also from wearing a "1%er" or "MC" patch. The reason for this, while not explicitly stated, is to avoid potential conflict over "turf" with the "gangs". See this article[1] for a discussion of the possible implications of not following the membership requirements of a 99%-er club like the IIRA. Or this one[2].
My concern is that if we restrict the contents of this list solely to the official OMG designation as per the FBI and/or CSIS, this might result in too short of a list (four organizations according to this article), unless - does the FBI also list known puppet clubs or smaller players other than the "big four"?
With this concern in mind, my initial thoughts are either to
  • leave this article as is, but add a brief description behind each name; or
  • rename the article to List of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs, as you suggested, and provide a link to this list. This second choice implies a significant reduction in the length of this list, and an increase in size of the other list (List of Motorcycle Clubs), which, in my opinion, should also then include all the notable historic so-called "gangs" that were in existence prior to when the law enforcement agencies you mentioned created the official designation Outlaw Motorcycle Gang. Garth of the Forest 20:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to be bold and start adding (where known) the location of the founding (mother) chapter, as well as year established, etc. Otherwise this list is just a redundant repetition of what could be handled by a category designation. Garth of the Forest (talk) 04:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)