Talk:List of most common surnames

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article falls within the scope of the Anthroponymy WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Anthroponymy, the study of people's names. This project is dedicated to creating uniform helpful encyclopedia quality articles on the surnames, family names and nicknames of people. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
If you have rated this article please consider adding assessment comments.

Contents

[edit] Verification

Pretty much only way to verify this information is through Census data or geneological sites. Since this information is likely to be in the native language, we may need to recruit wikipedians who speak those langagues fluently to help with this article. Kerowyn 20:42, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Various topics

I was going to comment here but I've decided to add a short column on a related subject to http://meta.wikipedia.com. --LMS

  • So you put this here, with no link, to torture us? But it looks like a very old entry. [shrug] --Jerzy(t) 19:02, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)

What is "Dundee" doing, alone, under Australia? Absent evidence, that's a bad joke. Vicki Rosenzweig

It's a bad joke, and it's going to be shifted there. The distribution of names in Oz is, broadly, somewhat like the US's, but obviously with no Spanish names and plenty of Vietnamese (Nguyen is like the third most common surname in Melbourne, but I don't have national data). --Robert Merkel

Hmm. I'm Russian, and I think the Russian list is BS. Where's the data from? I have never even heard two out of four names on that list. --Lament

It looks like this article started out (Nov 2001) as complete nonsense and has gradually come good. There were originally two names under Russia: Tscherkasov & Dougorookiy. These look like a joke: Tscherkasov = Jerks off?
User:Rmhermen deleted Dougorookiy before your comment. Tscherkasov is still there but I'll delete it. That leaves Ivanov, Vasiliev & Deternov, all added by User:Menchi on 25 Dec 2002. From your comment there's still one of these you've never heard of. Try Menchi's talk page. Andy G 01:49, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Hmm, i guess if those are considered rare, there's not much hope for the name of the great Russian venereal disease specialist. --Jerzy(t) 19:02, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)

The following are on given and middle names, not family name (as the title states):

External Link :

[edit] Name of this page

Might is be more popular to entitle this "List of most common famly names"? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 22:53, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

  • Agreed. One usually doesn't choose a family name after all. -- Kimiko 22:18, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • Abso. I will move it. But, while on the subject: has someone already researched and determined that
      • the shorter and more precise term surname somehow misses some (certainly non-obvious!) family name, or
        • there has been a decision elsewhere in WP to avoid surname for some other reason?
    Note that one meaning of family name is a given name that never occurs beyond those sharing a common descent (e.g., due to a spelling error or other coinage.
    --Jerzy(t) 19:02, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
    • I went ahead & changed "family " to "sur", when i realized it is in Category:Surnames, rather than fuss with notes clarifying the difference or lack thereof. --Jerzy(t) 20:43, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)

Shouldn't the Québec, Canada list be moved alphabetically to "Canada - Québec" or something like that? Sabbut 17:36, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think that rather than merge this and Most popular names names, that surnames from that list should be added here and the other list turned into first/given names. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 19:55, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Most definitely! Nikola 21:21, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese numbers

Why are there numbers beside the Chinese names? SD6-Agent 00:47, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

They're Mandarin (linguistics)#Tones. --Menchi 00:51, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Family names in Hong Kong / Macau of China

The surnames for Chinese, backed by some statistics in general are already listed in the China section. Separate (and mostly duplicate) lists for Hong Kong and Macau, which would not differ much from the Southern part of China, would not be necessary without further statistical backings. These should be discussed under the China section anyway. The deleted text is below (This does not seem to be a list based on usage frequency. Ng / Cheng(鄭) is more popular than Fong / Au in Hong Kong, for example) -

[edit] Hong Kong

  • 陳 Chan or rarely Chen
  • 李 Lee or Li
  • 張 Cheung or rarely Chang
  • 黃 Wong
  • 何 Ho
  • 周 Chow or Chau
  • 區 Au
  • 胡 Woo or Wu
  • 馬 Ma
  • 麥 Mak
  • 方 Fong
  • 梁 Leung
  • 朱 Chu
  • 蔡 Choi
  • 葉 Yip or Ip
  • 余 Yu or rarely Eu
  • 曾 Tsang
  • 劉 Lau

[edit] Macao

  1. 陳 Chan
  2. 李 Lee or Li
  3. 張 Cheong
  4. 鄭 Tchiang


Hong Kong and Macao have their own citizens records and their own transcrptions (romanisation), and should be separtely listed. And the pattern of surname distribution in southern China, or specifically Guangdong area, is not identical to that of China as a whole. If the sections of them have to be removed, perhaps German and Austrian sections have to be combined, for example.. (if there were an Austrian section).
I guess the listing of the surnames of Hong Kong here is not a ranking, but a listing of the popular ones. They were marked with * instead of #. — Instantnood 18:32, Jan 29 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnam

I dispute the accuracy of the Vietnam section. The only study I'm aware of was conducted in 1936 in one province in northern Vietnam (see http://www.saigon.com/~nguyent/hoa_03.html) that found 44% of the people in the study with the name Nguyen. Please cite sources for the order for these names. DHN 03:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You can't be serious

Under Ireland the top surname is "drunk". Is this a joke? -Juan Ponderas 02:41, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

No -- it was vandalism, a violation of Wikipedia policy, as was a recent replacement of a German surname with "Hitler". History books dealing with German history of a certain period would have plenty of references to the name "Hitler" but the name was never otherwise common in Germany (or Der Phooey's native Austria)

As a rule I undo vandalism when I see it.

--

Paul from Michigan 04:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drohan

Is anyone really trying to expand this page? There are several common surnames that have been left off, such as Drohan ((Drohan-Irish: reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Ó Druacháin ‘descendant of Druachán’, a byname representing a diminutive of druach, ‘wise man’. Source>Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4), concentrated in eastern Canada/U.S.A and, or course, Irland) to mention one. Are there any good sites where you can post questions about a surname and get answers about its etymology? They should be included on the main surname page. (like http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?&fid=10&ln=&fn=&yr=1920)


[edit] Quebec

Ok, I'm a little bit confused here, i thought this was listed alphabetically by country, now. as i recall, Quebec isn't independant yet.(and probably never will be, but this isn't the place) shouldn't it be listed in a section called Canada or something?

The population of Québec is very different in national origin from that of most of the rest of Canada. It has by far the largest Francophone population in the New World, and someone visiting New York City, Toronto, and Montreal in succession who did not know better might think that a national border exists between Toronto and Montreal and not the other way around.

Québec might as well be considered a nation even if it is not an independent entity. The distribution of names in Québec reflects a very different settlement than did most of the rest of Canada.--Paul from Michigan 04:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verify

Clearly, several sections of this article are unsourced. Should we: 1. delete the unsourced material? 2. mark the unsourced sections? 3. mark the entire article? --Mareino 19:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect information warning: India

Some of the entries in the most common surnames in India are patently false or misleading, e.g. Pisharody at No. 1. Many seem to be obvious attempts by people to have their (rather unknown) surnames added to the encyclopedia.

I do not have a definite source with which to correct the list, but it would probably be on the lines of Singh, Sharma, Gupta, Goyal, Agarwal, Patel, Patil, Rao, Jain, Shah, Mehta, Mishra, Ahuja, Taneja, etc.

Somebody do something about this, and quick, before all of the variously-surnamed idiots with internet access find out about "a one-time only, unique opportunity to have your name in the most authoritative information source on the web" hoax.


[edit] Italy List sounds like a joke

Russo, Rossi, Ferrari, Esposito??? Sounds like some New Jersey kid thought of anything that might sound italian and wrote it there. I'm not Italian either but i go to Italy quite often and i don't aprove this list. Erase?

I agree. I have removed the list. Eugene van der Pijll 14:17, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Not completely mad, since Rossi and Rosso are the most common surnames in the country, and Ferrari / Bianchi and the others (currently visible) surnames are common. One exception is #21, Machain: never heard of anyone, in Italy, with that name; never seen that surname on any list of common surnames, never heard anyone famous; I have therefore removed it. Also, the page quoted as source (which has been moved) does not appear authoritative. Claudio, 21 November 2006

[edit] UK List

I have edited the UK list back to match the source and extended a little. Spiers had been added spuriously.

[edit] Indian names removed

I have just moved the section on India to a separate article, List of Indian family names. Unlike all other countries, this section did not contain a "top-10" list, but an alphabetical list of "common" names -- 125 of them. There is no source given, and names were added to this list one by one, which suggests to me a certain randomness, which does not fit with the other lists on this page, which have certain strict criteria for inclusion. Eugene van der Pijll 20:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ic comment also true for serbian, not just croatian?

Most of Croatian names end on "ić".

That is what it says below all Croatian names. But all those Serbian names have that ending too!

Why is it not added?

[edit] Armenia

I have no information at all about the most popular names in Armenia, but what does strike me is that so many names end in yan :

Petrossyan, Kocharian, Demirchyan,...

Is something like that worth adding?

[edit] 桌 should be 卓

Singapore's 桌 should be 卓

[edit] Rant in the Portuguese list

I have removed the ranting - added from a Portugal IP - that it's a "myth" that upper and middle classes in Brazil have non-Portuguese surnames, and states that the list of Brazilian presidents is proof of that. Not only is that a small and biased sample, I had no idea Kubitschek, Garrastazu, Médici and Geisel were Portuguese surnames.--Macgreco 19:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] West Indies

I think that there should be some imformation about West Indian Surnames for example names from Jamaica, Bahamas, Trinidad & Tobago etc. It is a shame there is no mention of them whatsoever.

[edit] The lists

  • Some lists give information about the origin of the surnames, others state the percentage of people with that surname. Some link to nowhere. Others are in bullet form, some are in a numbered list, while others are organized in tables. For some family names, there's one for a male, and another for a female; in some lists there are only the ten most common surnames, while in others there are above fifty? Ain't this sort of maddening? Can someone, who has more free time then I do, arrange all the lists, giving them a common format? Keith Azzopardi 13:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I've made a start on that; see Belgium and the Netherlands. I will slowly continue to do this for those countries where sourced information is available. -- Eugène van der Pijll 13:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing unsourced lists

I'm removing a number of totally unsourced lists from these pages. There is no way of knowing if these are correct; many of the names on these lists have been added individually, which probably means that they did not come from a reliable source saying they were on of the top-xx names in the country. A couple of months ago, I removed the totally unorganized list of Indian surnames, and moved them to List of Indian family names. (Unfortunately, a very similar list is in this article again...) This may be solution for the other lists as well. This is the last version of this article containing the lists for:

  • Bangladesh
  • Brazil
  • Bulgaria
  • Croatia
  • Greece
  • India
  • Israel
  • Italy
  • Pakistan
  • Portugal
  • Romania
  • Serbia
  • Slovenia
  • Somalia
  • Sri Lanka

-- Eugène van der Pijll 15:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree; unsourced lists should be removed on sight. Otherwise, we will have no means of verifying that editors are not randomly inserting their own family name into their country's list. Ayla 12:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing unsourced information

On a similar theme to Eugene's edits above, I have just reverted a group of edits made recently which give me cause for concern. Firstly, they are wholly uncited - in a subject such as this which is plagued by unreliable folk etymology, this should be a unwaivable requirement for inclusion.

However, more concerning was the large number of plain factual errors:

  • Maas coming from son of Mae / May? Mae is neither Dutch, nor male. It means son of Maas, the Dutch diminutive of Thomas.
  • Morten as a Dutch name? Really?
  • Claes, son of Clae / Clay? Completely incorrect; like Maas, son of Claes (cf Klaus)
  • Goossens, son of Goossen? Gave me a chuckle. Goossens is roughly "God's son", in the same way Hansen was used in Scandinavia, for similar reasons... (Goossen is not a first name).
  • Nell is not a Danish name. For men or women.
  • Is Estonian Pärn really a German surname, and not something to do with the important Estonian city of the same name?
  • Ricci isn't cognate with Rex
  • Lombard isn't German, it's of Germanic origin
  • Brun isn't German, it's of Germanic origin

and best of all

  • Mark is not a German name; we're out by a couple of thousand years there.

...

and that's just what stood out to me in ten minutes. I'm no expert in this field, but seeing as there's so many mistakes it's best cut out for now; someone might feel encouraged to source it, and more importantly, verify which bits are correct. Knepflerle 11:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Goossens really is a patronym. The first name Goos or Goosen is derived from Gozewinus, and is very rare nowadays. See http://www.meertens.knaw.nl/nfd/detail_naam.php?naam=Goossens (if you can read Dutch). But on the whole, I agree with you. Eugène van der Pijll 21:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah, belangwekkend ;) I do remember reading a comparison of God's-son or His-son type surnames in Germanic languages which included Goossens, but I have no particular reason to believe that etymology over the one you found (and I must try and find the article again, it might have some good material for an article). This is probably indicative of the difficulty of making definitive statements about etymology in this area. At least I now know I'm more likely to meet a Dutch speaker called Goossen than Mae - thanks for your help! Knepflerle 23:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Years of Sourcing, Population & Percentage

I think those lists that do not state a year sourced need to have that listed, e.g. Brazil, if the source stated was used, it was from the 1970's. Also those who list by Population rather than Percent need to have the population of the country at the time of surveying, and perhaps an extrapolation of the percentage of population each surname covers. - J.P.Lon (talk) 09:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Brazilian surnames area out of order, and lack citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.101.109.46 (talk) 19:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Estonian Case

I would like to make a remark concerning the Estonian list. Russian surnames usualy have a male and a female form, but can't be seen as different surnames. Thus "Ivanov" and "Ivanova" should be counted as one (which is the case in the Slavic countries, as well as in Lithuania for example - see the list). According to the (Russian) Regnum News Agency there are 5880 people with the surname "Ivanov"/"Ivanova" in Estonia, making it the most common surname in the country. Apparently the Estonian government used the literal difference to exclude the non-(ethnicly-)Estonian surname from the top three. The same holds for "Smirnov"/"Smirnova", which with its 2979 surname bearers (male and female) belongs in the top ten.

I believe that at least a note of remark concerning this situation should be added.

(refference to the article on Regnum News Assocoation website: http://www.regnum.ru/news/404396.html [1] )

-Roman Nesterenco

84.198.251.251 (talk) 00:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC) Roman Nesterenco


[edit] Hispanic Name list above Canadian list

Does anyone know what that's about? It seems unconnected to anything, and I know it's not the all-North America list, because that one would include Smith and Jones and other "Anglo" names as well. Anybody have any idea?

Leodmacleod 6:51 UTC 10 March 2008


[edit] Australia/Austria

The list for Australia is listed under Austria. But when you go into Edit This Page, is appears correctly. Weird. Anyone know how to fix it?

122.107.198.162 (talk) 01:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)BenS

[edit] Argentina list

There is a website with a comprehensive study of Argentine surnames here: http://surnames.rutrin.com.ar/enterenglish.htm

The site is still under construction and has several flaws, but gives a good sense of the most common surnames (at least in the provinces analyzed). I have parsed the data on the site into a list of the top 10,000 surnames. Unfortunately, the website doesn't have values for 16 surnames (Benitez, Fernandez, Garcia, Gomez, Gonzalez, Lopez, Martinez, Perez, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Romero, Ruiz, Sanchez, Sosa, Suarez and Torres), but it is very likely that these are the most common and perhaps the values were too large to fit the file that was uploaded to the site.

I would be happy to add this link and the top 100 or so surnames, but was hoping to get others input. Best regards. Jogurney 19:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing and copyright

I am a bit concerned about the copyright for the source (I have refined the source to a subpage of the original source) of this information. The information is made available via the Open Publication License, which is not a copyleft license and requires the inclusion (not added in the present case) of a copyright statement (see http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). The source mentioned above by Jogurney has an ad hoc license that consists of simply "This information might be used with responsability (sic), and can be published anyway, just mentioning the source and the e-mail of the webmaster." This would seem to imply that one could use {{Cite web}} with an added comment containing "apellidos.argentinos@gmail.com" (as of 2008-05-03). The two sources are by no means comparable as the latter contains no aggregate information that ranks surnames (as of 2008-05-03). --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:48, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing and diacritics

The current source for the line items in the list provides only full-capitalized surnames lacking any diacritical marks. Therefore, the current format of this list is unsourced as one cannot distinguish between diacritical-containing and diacritical-lacking surnames (e.g. Diaz vs. Díaz). What should be done about this? --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:52, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Poland list

The cited publication year is noted, but not the year or year-span for which the list provided is valid. Could someone add that information, please? Thank you. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 16:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)