Talk:List of major Dragonlance characters

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Contents 1 Biography length 2 Typo 3 To add 4 Steel as Villian 5 Others 5.1 Questions on Minor Characters Mentioned w/out Entries, & Citation Requirements 6 Incredibly Long 7 Names 8 Image copyright problem with Image:Dhamongrimwulf.JPG

[edit] Biography length

As a suggestion, don't make the biographies too long. If the character has an individual page, like Raistlin, Tanis or Goldmoon, expand about their lifes there. If the character doesn't have a page, like Verminaard or Ariakas, put the information in the list directly. If the section for the character becomes too long, it can also be moved into a single article. This list is just a way of quickly remembering someone: you don't come here to learn where Tanis died, or where is Linsha, but instead to read a few sentences that will refresh your memory in a character. -- ReyBrujo 04:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Typo

Should be Jasper Fireforge, not Jaster (with a T). Dragonhelm 22:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. You know, you can edit the contents, be bold and correct whatever you think it is needed. -- ReyBrujo 22:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To add

Steel Brightblade, Theros Ironfeld, Otik. I wonder if there shouldn't be more sections, too. That 'heroes' area is getting pretty long. There needs to be a differention between Heroes as in protagonists and heroes as in...good guys. The Companions are Heroes much moreso than, say, the Majere children. I don't know what this second category would be called, though.

Maybe there should be a seperate article for 'minor' Dragonlance characters? --Masamage 00:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Or we could split it up by class, as well as alignment (good, neutral, evil). ddcc 03:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, so like, warriors here, mages there? That's an interesting idea, but I don't know how intuitive it is. Groups according to what they did feels a little more natural--like, Heroes of the Lance, etc. Or, actually it could be by species! I think I like that idea most.

Another curious omission: Dalamar! --Masamage 04:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The list was focused on characters that weren't likely to get an individual article. It was then expanded to add the notable characters as well. As for dividing, we will have to build a custom TOC to handle the long size. I agree that the division must be understandable to the casual user. Maybe by Age, Guild or Race instead of just hero/villain. If the list becomes just too big, we could split the list. However, note that size limits are not applicable to lists, as it is supposed every entry is not worth of an article. -- ReyBrujo 05:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps List of Dragonlance Heroes and List of Dragonlance Villians, and then leave others here? DoomsDay349 21:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steel as Villian

I don't know that Steel should be counted as a villain. In reality, a villain is someone who does something that is bad for the rest of the world, while a hero being the opposite. Did not Steel sacrifice his life in an attempt to defeat Chaos and save the world? That counts as a hero in my book. Just because your evil doesn't mean you can't be a hero. DoomsDay349 21:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, to go along with this he was buried in the Tomb of the Last Heroes.--Kranar drogin 23:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Others

I am not sure that Silvara shouldn't be kept in the heroes section. She found how draconians were being made, rallied the silver dragons, and fought first hand during the War of the Lance. After which she traveled the lands doing other deeds, then arrived on Southern Ergoth to take on the form of a Knight of Solamnia to fight the great white there. To me personally, she is a hero, and more-so than some of the people in the heroes section now.--Kranar drogin 23:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, are there any book considering her openly a hero? We just need a book stating that. Currently, the list basically divides between Heroes, Villians and Others. In example, Laura Majere is included in the Heroes category, but should be in the Others instead, because she is not a hero (unless something happens in Prisoner of Heaven that makes her one, novel that I have yet to read).

The best solution would be to split the list in two, but there is no certain way of doing it. Notability fluctues, sometimes a minor character can become protagonist in another novel, thus we would be forced to move the character from a list to another, losing the history of that character. Race and gender are static, but not really useful for the casual reader. Guild could be, but people usually changes guilds often. -- ReyBrujo 23:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Laura isn't in Prisoner of Haven, but she is in Saving Solace as an Innkeeper. Honestly, she should be in Others. As far as Silvara is concerned, The Odyssey of Gilthanas, page 82 marks her as being a "heroine of the metallic clans". I can't list the gaming books, cause I am not sure.--Kranar drogin 03:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

She is indeed a heroine... yeah, that sounds pretty much a verification, good enough for the list. Feel free to move Silvara back to the heroes list, and Laura to the Others list. I am afraid that, as time passes, most of the ones found at the Others section will end up as heroes. -- ReyBrujo 03:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

In the War of the Lance sourcebook she appears listed, but not in a way to explain a heroine title (page 277). So, we have in-universe confirmation, but not out-universe. Since we are using the information only to categorize characters, it is fine enough. -- ReyBrujo 03:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

No, War of the Lance wouldn't explain it since it mainly is dealing with about 351 AC roughly. She prolly would have gotten it after the War. I mean, the dragon has been around for a LONG time, since the Third Dragon War and done many things. So there are many possibilities as to why she was given that honor, but my guess is for finding out about their eggs and getting them into the war. Also, most of the people you have in the "Others" section works, Amero is a toss up reall, he might be considered a hero for helping his people fight off the other barbarians and dieing in the process, but the others are right on.--Kranar drogin 04:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questions on Minor Characters Mentioned w/out Entries, & Citation Requirements

I updated this page a while back to add Wanderer/differentiate between the Elder, and the son of the two heroes from the War of the Lance. Is it a problem if the info is from the Dragonlance Nexus? If it is, then I'm fine with searching out other references. If not, should I bother adding cites to the pages which reference the details, or just for major stuff above simple DOB's and when someone went somewhere? I'm basically just trying to get some of the interlinks between various DL articles to actually go somewhere. One example of a problem is that, though the Goldmoon and Riverwind articles mention their daughters who played at least small roles in some books, they're conspicuously missing here. Another is Linsha Majere within this article; its just a redirect back to the article itself, which is rather unhelpful. Ipso-De-Facto 11:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

DL Nexus is definitely an OK reference. Normally we just make a Reference section on the bottom and put a link to DL Nexus in there. Ddcc 15:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

DL Nexus is alright, but remember that that site writes in character style, while we should be out of character. Check the fiction guidelines for more. DoomsDay349 22:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incredibly Long

This article is really, really long. We need to get some of this off of here and on to some new pages. Any thoughts? DoomsDay349 03:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

How about Major characters of Dragonlance and Minor characters of Dragonlance? --Masamage 04:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...that could work, but instead List of major Dragonlance characters and List of minor Dragonlance characters. What do you think? DoomsDay349 04:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I recently learned that the naming style guides only require "List of..." when that's all it is. If there's info about them, which we have, it's better to leave it off. --Masamage 05:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Really! That's news to me. OK, yeah, then we can go with that. We can also cut the Heroes of the Lance and any Dragon, which have their own lists...damn, we have to rename like everything now! DoomsDay349 05:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Tracked down where I'm getting that from, and it looks like it was actually the style guide of WP:anime. So, not entirely relevant, if someone wants to dispute it. :) I still think it's excellent advice, though. --Masamage 07:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I'm going to pose the question at the help desk, and also we can discuss at the WikiProject page. For now, let's continue discussion here about possible moves. DoomsDay349 00:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I think what we should do is create the major characters list and the minor characters list. That way, all Dragonlance characters can be incorporated. Even the very minor ones, for instance, from Minotaur Wars, Kolot or Nephere. Important enough for a listing, but not for a whole article. DoomsDay349 16:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Ddcc 16:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

OK then. I'll start it soon. DoomsDay349 16:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds grood to me. --Masamage 20:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Grood? ;) Ddcc 16:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Hee hee. "Grood! I mean good. And great. Great and good."[1] --Masamage 19:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

OK! Here's my plan. Firstly, we can remove every entry on the Heroes of the Lance; they have their own article, it's plain redundancy. Secondly, we take all the major characters and move them to List of major Dragonlance characters, and all the minor ones to List of minor Dragonlance characters, which in all likelihood will be just as long or longer. I have a proposed organizational plan for minor characters; we go by novel. For example, taking from Night of Blood, the heading is Night of Blood, and in bold, not subheadings with the name of characters, we put the char's name, in order of appearance. So, then, under Night of Blood we put Hotak, and then a SHORT, maximum six sentences, entry. It keeps it minimal size, however unfortunately this page will still be quite long, but the organization makes it easier to deal with. Good? Or rather, grood? :) DoomsDay349 22:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I would rather list it under series, since there are three books for the Night of Blood series, and creating three different entries on the same characters is just plain foolish. Ddcc 02:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's a much better idea. But what about loosely connected series, like Tales, Heroes, or Meetings? DoomsDay349 05:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

For series like Dragons of Autumn Twilight, etc, we can classify those by series. For the others that are loosely connected can be grouped under a big "series" heading, with individual book subheadings, that way everything will at least have a "Series heading". Ddcc 15:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'll start on it in a little bit. DoomsDay349 17:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Since I've got too much time on my hands, I've already gone ahead. Two problems: Ddcc 03:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

• How do I determine if the character is major or minor? I'm currently going by whether the character has a {{main|...}}.
• How should I categorize a character like Bupu who appears in both Chronicles and Legends? I've tried using the name attribute of the a (hyperlink) tag, but Wikipedia doesn't utilize it.
  
  In addition, these need to be fixed:
• Articles that redirect to List of Dragonlance characters. (Change to the major or minor list, and add the link to specific section)
• Fix double redirects.

Classification on minor or major is a big thing, and I think we should hold a discussion of all of them here or at the Wikiproject page. And also, remove the Heroes and Villians claimers, it's unencyclopedic.

The characters: (can you tell I copied the TOC? lol)

• 1.1 Alhana Starbreeze- vote major

• 1.2 Astinus- vote major

• 1.3 Caramon Majere- vote major

• 1.4 Crysania-vote major, she needs and article

• 1.5 Dhamon Grimwulf-vote major

• 1.6 Elistan-vote minor, we should probably condense the info on him and remove the article

• 1.7 Flint Fireforge- vote major

• 1.8 Gilthas Pathfinder-vote major

• 1.9 Goldmoon-vote major

• 1.10 Huma Dragonbane-vote major

• 1.11 Kaz the Minotaur-vote major

• 1.12 Laurana Kanan-vote major

• 1.13 Linsha Majere-vote minor

• 1.14 Palin Majere-vote major

• 1.15 Raistlin Majere-vote major

• 1.16 Riverwind-vote major

• 1.17 Sir Pirvan The Wayward- minor

• 1.18 Steel Brightblade- major

• 1.19 Sturm Brightblade- major

• 1.20 Sturm Majere- minor

• 1.21 Tanin Majere- minor

• 1.22 Tanis Half-Elven- major

• 1.23 Tasslehoff Burrfoot-major

• 1.24 Tika Waylan-minor

• 1.25 Ulin Majere-minor

• 1.26 Usha Majere-major

• 2.1 Fistandantilus- minor (condense his info and rdrct the article

• 2.2 Ariakan Ariakas- minor (same as Fist)

• 2.3 Kitiara Uth Matar-major

put main|Category:Dragonlance organizations

• 3.1 Heroes of the Lance

• 3.2 Last Heroes

• 3.3 Heroes of the Heart

• 3.4 Dragonarmies of Ansalon

• 3.5 Knights of Takhisis

• 3.6 Legion of Steel

• 5.1 Alleran Waylan- minor

• 5.2 Berem/The Everman- minor

• 5.3 Laura Majere- minor

• 5.4 Solostaran Kanan- minor

• 5.5 Wanderer the Elder- minor

• 5.6 Wanderer (Riverwind's Son)- minor

Those are only my votes, you can contest if you like. DoomsDay349 03:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm voting by how I've organized it. In addition, I've contacted Kranar and Rey. Ddcc 03:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

By that you mean how everything already is? DoomsDay349 03:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Basically, I disagree with you on elistan, linsha (Seeing that she has her own trilogy), tika waylan, ulin majere, Fistandantilus, Laura Majere, and Berem. Ddcc 03:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. Elistan I think wasn't too important, Linsha I concede, but she needs a bigger article, Tika yeah but needs a better article, Ulin I don't agree with, he's only made fleeting appearances in a few novels, same with Laura, Berem was only a minor character in three books, and Fist I'm not so sure about...he did have a novel so yeah, with more info he could be major. DoomsDay349 03:54, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Just chiming in. Linsha is a major character, as well as Fistandantilus, as he has appeared in countless novels. I haven't read new (as in, Dark Disciple onwards) books, but until then, Ulin and Laura were minor characters. Pirvan... didn't he have a series of four novels for himself? If you consider major in a "timeline influence", then yes, he can be considered minor. But if you consider major as in protagonist of novels or series, he is major. -- ReyBrujo 04:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Pirvan had a series to himself, but it was a relatively minor one; as far as timeline influence goes, then he is minor. And that's pretty much how I would go with it. As for new stuff, I'm trying to think about what's new...Rise of Solamnia and Price of Courage, pretty much, which don't affect Laura or Ulin. DoomsDay349 04:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, what do you guys consider Major and Minor? I would agree that both Caramon Majere boys and both Wanderers are minor. Solostaran? Not too sure on that one. Most of the others as mentioned above are major, even Ulin and Linsha. Ulin has had his own book with his wife, Linsha had her own series, plus a couple short stories. Or are you trying to say that Major/Minor is how many books they have been in and/or how they have influenced the Timeline. I would say a character like Dougl from Chronicles would be minor (being just a boy mentioned).--Kranar drogin 23:37, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

One possibility is to classify "major" characters as those who were important in books written by Weis and Hickman. So the definition of "important" is still debatable, but it means that Ulin or Pirvan or others get disqualified, which both seems appropriate and trims down the field. --Masamage 23:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I do not think that it would be fair to say that only books by MW and TH are characters that are major. Then you would have to rule out Vinas, Huma, Kith-Kanan, Dhamon Grimwulf, Feril, and many many more. So I would have to disagree with this definition, but you guys can do what you want.--Kranar drogin 00:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds okay to me. X) We'll see what others think, though. --Masamage 00:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I would look at the overall effect on the series, obviously Tasslehoff was important, but Pirvan hardly effects the series at all. Ddcc 02:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to go with characters that had a major effect on the series and setting in general. Pirvan had little to do with it, whereas Raistlin (yes, I have to pick Raistlin) has an enormous effect on the setting. Things like that. Agreed, however, about MW and TH; they started the setting but are not the entire setting. DoomsDay349 04:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Names

Shouldn't the real names be included somewhere in the article? I mean, instead of "Tanis Half-Elven" it could be something like "Tanthalas (Tanis) Half-Elven." I didn't edit anything because I only know Tanis's and Laurana's (Lauralanthalasa Kanan) real name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.171.53.86 (talk) 18:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

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