Talk:List of living supercentenarians/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Archive
Archives
  • Archive 1 - (June 2007 - September 2007)
  • Archive 2 - (September 2007 - November 2007)
  • Archive 3 - (November 2007 - January 2008)
  • Archive 4 - (January 2008 - present)

Contents

Article

This article is basically plagiarizing the GRG list, and we should consider its removal.Ryoung122 05:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

It'd be hard to have a list of supercentenarians without appearing at least somewhat similar to their list. If anyone can think of any way of making this list less like their's, please make a comment. All I can think of is alphabetizing the list instead of going chronological, but that doesn't really make any sense. Useight 05:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The point is...who will decide who to include/exclude on this list? And, if it is the 'same' as the GRG list, why have the article at all?Ryoung122 19:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would think that a list of living people that are 110 or older should include people that are 110 or older. But I see your point, because there are many unverified claims of people's ages. Personally, I think only verified claims should make this list because this is an encyclopedia. As for your other question, I know Wikipedia isn't a mirror, but there are other articles about the oldest, heaviest, etc, and I just like having all the information in one place. Useight 22:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
P.S. - I just saw your userpage and now know why you have such an interest in this topic. Useight 22:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Let me say this: if the list mirrors the GRG list, what is the purpose? If the list does not mirror the GRG list, who decides the standards and what cases to accept?Ryoung122 04:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this list only mirrors the GRG list because I'm not the only one who edits this article and the other people may not have gotten their information from that list. This list is trying to compile the data from the GRG list and from other lists to make a comprehensive list. Anyway, maybe the article should be deleted as a mirror, perhaps it should be put up in the WP:AFD and let the masses decide. Useight 18:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there are more people in it (four to be precise), namely almost validated ones as well: great stuff. Extremely sexy 23:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment: I want to compliment the editors of Wikipedia for maintaining brief biographies for many of the individuals on this list. I would recommend additional articles for those who do not yet have a biographical sketch, to the extent that is possible.

I would like to suggest that the name(s) of those validating the age of an individual be added to each of the biographies to provide for process accountability. This procedure would be preferable, and would make it unnecessary to link to the GRG list and find the names of the validators there. Nevertheless, the links to the GRG list or the World's Oldest People should be maintained to indicate the source of the entry here. In addition listing those documents that were employed to validate the person would lend credibility to the list.

I have observed that most of the references for 9 of the entries on the list are newspapers or other media. These sources are excellent for leads that can lead to proper documentary validation of a subject, but they are inadequate to prove the age of the person in question. A near exception to this statement is the Telegraph newspaper story on Mary Brown that shows 5 photographs of her at various ages from 2 to about 20. These photos suggest that documentation of her age probably exists. In another case I received an E-mail from the granddaughter of Dorothy Olive Hodgson in which she said of her grandmother, "She has regularly received certificates from various levels of government, - Premiers, Prime Ministers the Governor General, as well as the Queen - over the years. She is therefore quite able to prove her date of birth." The last I knew documents had not yet been provided, but she would seem to be a likely candidate for successful validation. The reference for Marcelle-Jeanne Colas is from the La Mayenne Conseil General. I don't know French, so I can't evaluate the validity of this reference. I would suggest that a separate list be maintained that contains potential supercentenarians who have not yet been validated. This list would appropriately include the 9 subjects referred to here. They are specifically:

  Josefa Punzón
  Nicholas Kao Se Tseien
  Rosa Rein
  Cora Gentry (Is this the same as Mary Gentry listed in Ref.1?)
  Annie Butler
  Dorothy Hodgson
  Marcelle-Jeanne Colas
  Mary Brown
  Louis de Cazenave

The remaining 94 entries on the list have been properly validated. StanPrimmer 04:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Another Canadian added to the list

While I have no current way of referencing it, a Canadian women turned 110 today, July 23rd, 2007. I can't add it, as I don't have her name, or any other information, except for her location, Qualicum Beach, British Columbia. Hope to see it on the list as soon as it can be proven. Kaiser matias 02:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

So may I ask how exactly you acquired this information, dear Matias (from Germany most presumably)? Extremely sexy 13:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Update: I found her name over here: it's Dorothy Hodgson. Extremely sexy 15:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I was casually watching the local news and it was mentioned in passing. It took a minute for the news to register of what was said, and by the time I found this page and all that, I had completely forgotten her name. Glad to see someone else had found it though. Kaiser matias 17:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

So you actually do live in Canada? Extremely sexy 20:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Born and raised in British Columbia. Kaiser matias 20:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

But you are of German descent obviously? Extremely sexy 21:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

German, Polish, English. All of the above. Here's a link to further confirm Hodgson as 110: Parksville Qualicum News Kaiser matias 22:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks anyway, but I already posted that particular one on the "WOP" forum. Extremely sexy 11:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Original Research?

It could be argued that the list as currently constructed is 'Original Research'. Also, since Bessie Roffey of Canada was apparently born Mar 2 1897, why is she not listed? 74.237.28.5 18:32, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Exactly my point too, and I didn't add Mrs. Hodgson anyway, but the four others are about to be validated very soon. Extremely sexy 12:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, Bart, please reference every case on the GRG list, and for those not on the GRG list, they should be asterisked* and referenced to the article. Note this is 'dangerous' because it opens the door for people to add junk like Horhiy Nestor. If a simple news article is enough, we are in trouble. Think about it.Ryoung122 02:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

No, that's your job actually, but I in fact added Bessie Roffey as well, since you are close to validate her. Extremely sexy 19:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I didn't start the article, so no, it's not my job. However I will delete any case I think is suspect (i.e. Ruby Muhammad, who is probably 'only' 100, not 110, years old).Ryoung122 05:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I started the article, nobody in particular has the job or responsibility to add the sources since nobody actually owns the article. It'd be nice for someone to get around to it, possibly me if I get the time. I'll put some effort into it tomorrow, but everyone should be helping out rather than shunning the job. Useight 06:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Well put, but, for your information, Muhammad isn't even in the list at all though. Extremely sexy 13:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I went through the list and added asterisks to each of the individuals not on the GRG list. I don't have time right now to look up a reference for each one, but they are marked to make it a little easier to find the people who still need references. Useight 22:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


Greetings,

I DO like the list because it allows for a quick-referenced table with flags and wikilinks. However, there is a central issue that is a main flaw.

This article's standards can be somewhat lower than the GRG list. The GRG list must insist on higher standards because the 'top 10' persons may be in Guinness (the 2008 edition lists the top 10; the 2007 edition listed the top 15). Given that persons such as 'Rosa Rhein' come from nations with generally-accepted systems of valid recordkeeping, it makes sense to list her on this list (even if not on the GRG list). However, the problem becomes one of explaining why other entries (such as Ruby Muhammad) should be excluded. It becomes a tedious process to explain that the validation rate for African-American supercentenairans in the U.S. South was just 50% in the Social Security Administration study, or that exaggerated ages are often correlated with societies with lower rates of literacy and recordkeeping. This is not to surmise that all African-American cases should be excluded; indeed we see Gertrude Baines on the list. Rather, the point is, the standards of documentation must be higher when coming from areas with a history of age-inflation. This includes places such as Eastern Europe, Africa, India, China, etc. but not places such as Japan, Australia, Western Europe, or the northern U.S. (by comparison, Georgia did not begin issuing birth certificates until 1919; Massachusetts already had them in the 1800's). Further, the higher the age claimed, the greater the scrutiny must be employed (this is similar to the Tour de France testing all the stage winners and overall leaders but not everyone in the race). In no case should the oldest person listed be higher than the Guinness 'oldest living person'...to do so would be 'original research.'Ryoung122 07:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The standards of verification for this article should be the same as any other Wikipedia article, and independent of any GRG criteria. Each entry should be verifiable to a reliable source (i.e. Yahoo group is not acceptable). Preferably there should be in-line citations for each entry. To suggest that "This article's standards can be somewhat lower than the GRG list. The GRG list must insist on higher standards because the 'top 10' persons may be in Guinness" is false, the standards here should be higher and evidence of documentary proof linked. - fchd 09:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

No, the standards here are LOWER because, by definition, this is the 'people's encyclopedia' that 'anyone can edit'. The plus-side of that is that new material can be added more quickly and brilliant amateurs aren't held back. The negative side of that is that someone can edit an article for which they have no track record or training. Also, a Yahoo group IS acceptable in some cases. Read the policy again.Ryoung122 06:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

From the verifiable page:

"Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications."

In other words, material may be reliable if it comes from 'established experts'. The primary means of transmission or citation is irrelevant. Also, I find it odd that you said that, given:

A. The use of Yahoo group links for WWI vets articles/lists B. The use of websites such as:

http://dersdesders.free.fr/bio_veterans/satar.html

The above source is considered 'generally reliable' because Frederic Mathieu has an established track record of involvement in the field (including arranging the meeting of Henry Allingham, 110, with Robert Meier, 109, in 2006). So long as the information quoted is uncontested by other sources, it can be considered as a reference.

It thus follows that there are 'degrees of reliability'/verifiability.' Many people run around citing Wiki 'policies' as if they are 'law' when they explicitly state they are guidelines...

Now, back to the earlier point: I note one of the 'policies' is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary verifiability/referencing. The more contentious the claim, the higher the standard should be employed to document it. This makes sense. In the case of this list, if someone adds a 110-year-old, it is not 'that' contentious...but if a '125' year-old were added, it would be quite contentious and most probably incorrect.

Sincerely, Robert Young Ryoung122 06:24, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

While that does make sense, this article doesn't need to be of "higher standard" or even of "equal standard" with the GRG list. It should be completely independent as long as the individuals have a verifiable. The problem that you mentioned above is that some people's longetivity claims can't be backed up with birth certificates or other documents. This list may end up with standars in line with the GRG's (such as birth cerficate being required or whatever), but it could be decided to lower the requirement. That's a lot of beating around the bush, but what I'm trying to say is that this list should be a completely separate entity to the GRG's. Useight 06:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

List updates

The main reason I didn't want this list was whoever created it would not be responsible for the upkeep. So, Kozuru Ueda's death has been reported, why is she still on the list? Ryoung122 06:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I just updated Soyo Iwakura (born Dec 15 1894, died Oct 19 2006). The most tedious part of the updating is having to change 'all' the age rankings. Don't expect me to do this all the time. I'll provide the info (you don't need references to delete something, do you?). References can be found either on the GRG website or the World's Oldest People message board.

Next change: someone please add Mississippi Wynn (born Mar 31 1897) USA. Thanks. Ryoung122 18:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thankfully, close to the bottom. Canadian Paul 01:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Next: Yasu Nishiyama of Japan (born Aug 20 1894) passed away Oct 19, 2006:

1894/08/20 Yasu Nishiyama (F, Kagawa, Japan) 2006/10/31 Sankei Shinbun http://www.sankei.co.jp/chiho/kagawa/061104/kgw000.htm

Note: the GRG only guarantees that persons listed as 'living' have been confirmed to be alive within the past year.

Regards. Ryoung122 19:46, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks: I will do this right now. Extremely sexy 19:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Next update:

Haya Kurogi of Japan (F, Miyazaki), born Jan 10 1897, 110th birthday confirmed in Jan 2007, so will be added to Table E. Ryoung122 06:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Also done: lovely. Extremely sexy 15:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Next update: Tsuyano Watanabe (born Feb 20 1896) died May 14, 2007.Ryoung122 06:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

My turn. It is done. Canadian Paul 06:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Naka Matsusaki passed away March 9?, 2007, aged 111 years (born Jan 1 1896).Ryoung122 09:18, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I served my master. Extremely sexy 14:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Bart, you are so funny!

Next case:

Add Chiyono Ohta (F, Japan) born Nov 1 1896. Ryoung122 13:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but this update is for Paul. Extremely sexy 17:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts: he had his chance. Extremely sexy 21:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention that I'm in the process of moving to Austin. I'll help if I can, but don't count on it. Cheers, CP 23:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
So you're leaving your good old Canada for the States to settle in Texas, huh? Extremely sexy 12:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I've lived in California since I was 15. Still gotta keep the pride though. Cheers, CP 20:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Right, and how old are you now exactly, please? Extremely sexy 20:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Well according to my user page, 21. But it has no citation, so perhaps I should request a citation or delete it under WP:NOR ;) Cheers, CP 20:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Comment: You don't need a citation on your user page, only on an article page! Ryoung122 06:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
He is pulling your leg, dear Robert. Extremely sexy 20:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

References

I wanted to extend a hand of congratulations (is that even a proper term?) to Canadian Paul for putting in the references for all individuals on the list. Useight 06:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, though really, I guess I'm just a somewhat anal guy with too much time on his hands at the moment... haha. Canadian Paul 06:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Anal: explain? Extremely sexy 20:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Even though it was blatantly obvious that the GRG candidates came from Table E and even though the GRG was linked below the table, I still had to go through and reference every single last name. Cheers, CP 20:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Stupid policy indeed then. Extremely sexy 20:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Redundancy

  • It is a minor point, but the opening line does not need "or older". The first part of the sentence says they are "living". As such, anyone who "reaches" 110 and is "living" is on the list. There can be noone who is "older" but has not reached 110. Alan Davidson 04:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Ever heard of age 111, 112, 113, or 114? That's older than 110!Ryoung122 02:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The opening sentence should really be rewritten. DerbyCountyinNZ 05:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
In the mean time, should we delete "or older"? Alan Davidson 07:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
My suggestion is: "This is a list of living supercentenarians (persons who have reached the age of 110); all those listed here have subtantial evidence to prove that they are currently 110 or older." Even that does not seem as good as it might.DerbyCountyinNZ 07:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I much prefer '110 or older.' Also note that, in reality, 110 years 0 days and 110 years 273 days is NOT the same age...Ryoung122 02:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you're totally wrong. Someone who is 112 has reached the ages of 110, 111, and 112...someone who is 110 has reached the age of 110 but not the age of 111, 112, etc. Is that too hard to figure out?Ryoung122 02:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
It is gramatically incorrect and redundant. A person living who has reach 110 can (and almost always will) by older; it is gramatically implicit. Noone would believe the list comprises only living people who are exactly 110. That would be an absurdity. I enjoy discussion, but I do not like editing wars, so I will leave it to you. Alan Davidson 13:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
It is particularly poor grammar to have "as of currently <today's date>". Because the date is automatically updated, it must always be current - the word "currently" is redundant. Alan Davidson 05:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
"Particualarly" is particularly-poor spelling. I agree that the above phrase is incorrect, let's see if we can find a compromise.Ryoung122 06:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
That's good, persons who are 110 or older is much better than have reached 110 or older. Alan Davidson 10:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

List updating

  • I went to delete Plazida Insausti (added to the GRG list on Sept 1, died on Sept 12), but it seems no one bothered to add her. So much for people keeping this list maintained. Ryoung122 02:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • That's because she had been added unnoticed: even Thomas Breining didn't notice, because her picture wasn't added either, until she passed. Extremely sexy 15:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Flags

For about a day now, many of the flags have been blank. Is this just me, or is anyone else experiencing this. Alan Davidson 11:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not just you! DerbyCountyinNZ 12:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
It's not just flags! Other things like WP:AUTO tags are also messing up! Ryoung122 22:05, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Problem solved I see. Extremely sexy 15:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you - all the flags are now working. Alan Davidson 01:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Marie-Louise L'Huillier

Once again, Bart's insistence on the spelling or punctuation of something is questionable. Note Madame L'Huillier's 112th birthday party, in French:

Val Plaisance Mademoiselle L’Huillier fête ses 112 ans Elle a 112 ans et n’est pas très loin d’entrer dans les livres des records. Marie-Louise L’Huillier dite « Maryse », doyenne de la Nouvelle-Calédonie, a fêté son anniversaire, hier après-midi, en compagnie de quelques membres de sa famille et d’amis. Née le 26 juin 1895 à Nouméa, avenue Marignon connue aujourd’hui sous le nom de rue Sébastopol « alors que la ville ne comptait que 6 000 habitants », comme l’a indiqué le maire Jean Lèques venu la saluer, Maryse a tout vécu et a assisté à toutes les évolutions de la capitale et de la Calédonie. Jamais mariée, elle est connue des Nouméens par son sobriquet « Mademoiselle L’Huillier ». Sans enfant, elle a travaillé à la banque d’Indochine et a enseigné également le français dans un collège de Sydney. Alitée depuis quelques mois, cette grande dame qui a chevauché trois siècles, conserve à 112 ans, d’après ses proches, une grande classe, une mémoire extraordinaire ainsi qu’un excellent sens de l’humour.

C.L.

NAVIGUEZ Tous les articles Précédent | Suivant

Marie-Louise L’Huillier, doyenne de la Nouvelle-Calédonie, a fêté, hier, son 112e anniversaire entourée de sa nièce et de ses enfants ainsi que du maire Jean Lèques et du père Pierre Ngo. Photo Jacquotte Samperez

Ryoung122 22:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Robert, first of all, it's not because it's an article in French that it is undoubtedly right (remember: journalists), and moreover, secondly, as I pointed out to you already a couple of times before, LAURENT TOUSSAINT told me this, and he should now, especially since he has proof of how her surname is written exactly, meaning he has some document. Extremely sexy 15:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Bart: I have e-mails from Mr. Toussaint using the L'Huillier spelling. You should have him e-mail me if you consider this to be 'incorrect.' Ryoung122 11:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
That's rather strange: I will ask him. Extremely sexy 16:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hattie Lafayette

The GRG has another case! Born March 30, 1897! Ryoung122 09:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I already added her before having read this. Extremely sexy 15:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Ludwika Kosztyła of Poland

born 3 August 1897 +110 years old http://www.brzozow.pl/akt.php?id=48 with photo http://www.brzozow.pl/upload/Image/Babcia1b.jpg photo Ludwika Kosztyła http://www.tvn24.pl/12690,1516784,wiadomosc.html film —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.30.189.46 (talk) 09:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We added Nicholas Kao Se Tseien is there a reason not to add this case? Also, what about Fan Shee Hoo, the Chinese-Canadian? Ruby Muhammad's exclusion I understand (due to the controversy around her actual birthdate) but it seems like Tseien is a bit of a sore thumb among the rest of the people on this list. I sort of drifted from my original point, but I think it's becoming where the line should be drawn for inclusion or exclusion.
Speaking of August 1897 births, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Aarne Arvornen had been validated so quickly, I didn't expect that for a while. Cheers, CP 19:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I just realized that she's also already on living national longevity recordholders. If no one objects, I'm going to add her to this list. In addition, I'm also going to add Fan Shee Hoo, because her claims is just as valid and verifiable as Kao Se Tseien's. Cheers, CP 17:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What next? Will someone be pushing for Benedycta Mackiello to be accepted as 113, with no documentation? At least with 'living national longevity recordholders' a case is within the context of that nation...but here the case is for the whole world.Ryoung122 14:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Mary Gentry

Another GRG case! 72.158.38.41 09:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, my friend. Extremely sexy 16:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Myra Nicholson 1894-2007

Died Sept 20 2007. Ryoung122 04:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

But still no obituary. Extremely sexy 16:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Why sure there is. Cheers, CP 16:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Right: thanks then. Extremely sexy 03:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
This makes E. Beatrice Riley the oldest lving Australian. Should someone create a short page to this effect? Alan Davidson 00:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

German SC-cases

There are people listed like Nicholas Kao Se Tseien of China or Rosa Rein from Switzerland. Why has noone listed the following German SC`s?

Margarethe Rosenberger (* November 13, 1896), currently 110 years old
Frieda Borchert (* January 05, 1897), currently 110 years old
Helene Heidtbreder (* May 19, 1897), currently 110 years old
Frieda Tessmer (* August 05, 1897), currently 110 years old

I think they all are as verifiable as Nicholas Kao Se Tseien or Rosa Rein! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.60.248.213 (talk) 19:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I support adding the German cases. The German government tracks these and we have a reliable source (if not the actual documents). Again, I do agree the Wikipedia standard is lower than the GRG standard (which is of necessity). But how relaxed should we make it? I say yes to the German cases (at least post-1990) since the German government tracks them. I would say 'no' to Fan Shee Hoo and the Polish woman. Note that Chinese cases are generally NOT considered validated (due to a history of age exaggeration). The same can be said for Poland. However, as the 'Surviving Veterans of WWI' page has a footnote list of unvalidated cases, I propose a new section for unvalidated claims age 110-113 that are not objectionable (i.e. Fan Shee Hoo, the Polish lady, etc). Claims aged 114 or higher should go to the longevity claims page. After all, if we add a person who claims to be older than the official world's oldest person, then what is the point of the list? Or what if Fan Shee Hoo is still alive five years from now? Sorry, no documents=not official. If we are going to accept unvalidated cases, it should only be those from nations with a track record of 99% accuracy (when was the last time a German-born case turned out to be false? 1936?). Note Poland has recently had several claimants to 116, 119, etc. Based on that same token, we don't accept American cases prima facie since we still have a lot of false/dubious American claims out there. However, if we can validate an American case individually, then we accept it.

Regards Ryoung122 07:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

One more comment, if we understand the German situation, the oldest person in Germany gets reported by the German government, so it eliminates the problem of a 'ghost' case. But since we don't have a list of all the German cases, we can't simply say 'Frieda Borchert is validated, because she is on the list' (since we don't have it). But we can say, "If Frieda Borchert makes it to #1 in Germany, the German government will verify that fact." Thus we are protected and it is safer to accept German cases 'as is.' Ryoung122 07:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, but that still doesn't explain why we accept Nicholas Kao Se Tseien on the list... Cheers, CP 15:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe because he is a Catholic priest (just joking)? Extremely sexy 23:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

No joke, that is the correct answer: Catholics believe in infant baptism, and it's likely that birth records exist for this man. However, no one has actually sent anything to the GRG or to Guinness (despite the newspaper claims). Thus, the case remains a 'probably true' but not actually double-checked case.Ryoung122 14:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, yes, Maria Olivia da Silva is Catholic also...but the Nicolaus Kao Se Tseien case also has going for it:

--he's a priest --he has a long career in one place --the age claim started at 108 (reasonable), not '125' (not reasonable)

However, if he is to one day get the Guinness record for REAL, someone will have to send something in.Ryoung122 14:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I can accept this logic, mainly because it means less work for me. Cheers, CP 17:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Gertrude Shindel

According to this article: [1] Gertrude Shindel of the US is 110 years of age and doesn't appear on your list. The article does not give her date of birth, but does give her place of residence. Maybe this could be checked up on? ~XZT 29th September 2007

Greetings,

We have already checked up on her. She was born July 29 1897 and is scheduled to be added to the GRG list some time in Oct 2007. You can sign up here for the latest 'behind the scenes' updates:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worlds_Oldest_People/

Regards Robert Young Ryoung122 05:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)