Talk:List of lawyers

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[edit] Exclusion of Politicians

This exclusion falls on such an arbitrary side that it becomes pointless to submit to its will. The original intention of this page did desire that politicians be omitted but considering that lawyers who then became politicians framed America (e.g. Alexander Hamilton or Thomas Jefferson) and some became worldly recognized faces (e.g. Politician Nelson Mandela) and others did much to shape the world (e.g. David Lloyd George) and all of these men had a heavy hand in politics. Also, some lawyers went on to play a major role in politics without being a politician (e.g. Ramsey Clark). I believe they should be recognized on this page as lawyers nonetheless. --Max337

I am countermanding your edit. The consensus in favor of keeping politicians out of this list has stood for several years before you unilaterally disrupted it.

There are several problems with your argument. The first problem is that there are so many politicians who are also lawyers that to include them would overwhelm this list with politicians, which would deeply frustrate visitors interesting in seeing a compact list of famous lawyers (as in litigators or negotiators). The second problem is that you are looking at the problem from an American point of view. Wikipedia is a global project and must respect the views of its international editors. All edits have to be consistent with Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias.

Your edits also seem to violate Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, particularly the clause about Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of random information. Visitors interested in politicians can already find them through the relevant articles on politics and politicians as well as the Category system. If you do not know about the Wikipedia Category system, then you are way out of your league.

Also, your improper grammar and spelling indicates that you are either not a lawyer or you were very poorly trained. The job of the lawyer is very different from that of the politician and it is important to not get them confused. --Coolcaesar 07:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with my grammar. I did not err in spelling; rather it was a typo as I spelled "lawyer" correctly numerous times afterward. But you are correct, I am not a lawyer. Good eye, detective. I am currently a Information Systems consultant who is considering law school. Show me how this category system can offer a list of every notable politician who is a lawyer and I will drop it. The problem with your argument is "jumping to conclusions." It is a recognized fallacy in argument. You jumped to the conclusion that I intended to name every lawyer involved in politics. Now that would be indiscriminate! I intended to name every notable politician who is a lawyer. Mr. Caesar, if we were bound to follow in the footsteps of our predecessors' actions, perceptions and visions then Wikipedia would have never existed in the first place. Change; get with it. I have not edited the article my way because I do not have a consensus majority behind me, but it will come with enough diligence.

Gandhi, however, should be included. So should Tocqueville and nearly a dozen others. Good job "countermanding" it and falling prey to your own policy --Max337

If you can't see anything wrong with your grammar and poor grasp of English idiom, then you will not survive long in law school. Starting off, your prose implies a person where a native English writer would not imply a person. As in, whose will or original intent? A native writer would refer to the original authors of the article versus the article itself (an object, not a person) and carefully maintain that distinction.

Also, e.g. is usually followed by a comma, because it represents a separate clause in Latin. Politician should be in lower case. "Worldly recognized faces" is not correct English idiom; the correct idiom would be "faces recognized around the world."

As the great law professor Roger Schechter likes to say in his standard BarBri tort lecture (which I attended in person), lawyers deal in details: "The world is a messy place. Most people are not careful about details. You are paid to care about the details for them."

Next, to find the Category system, see Wikipedia:Categorical index. Scroll down to Politicians. Then from there you can delve deeper into various types of politicians.

Finally, to reiterate my earlier point, to name every notable politician who is a lawyer would swamp the list with politicians and make it impossible to find notable litigators (and litigators are what most people think of first when they think of lawyers, especially when they need a lawyer). Tell me how you plan to fix that problem.--Coolcaesar 01:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional lawyers

Where is the Daredevil? He is certainly the most notable fictional lawyer. Carioca 03:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)