Talk:List of intelligence agencies
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I would just like to point out that this article's purpose is not to list every single intelligence organization of a country. I have seen countries in this article with lists of obscure intelligence organizations where simply the main one would do. Detailed lists of the ins and outs of a countries intelligence gathering capabilities are for seperate articles, not this summary where it simply confuses the situation by showing a list of mostly irrelivent little intelligence gathering entities rather than the main intelligence agency or agencies for that country.--Supertask 01:16, 12 March 2008 (GMT)
Should FRA (http://www.fra.se/english.shtml) be on the list of Swedish intelligence agencies? --- In the USA, AFAIK, "secret service" always refers to the United States Secret Service. I think we may need some kind of disambiguation here.
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. It's on the list anyway. --Minimax
[edit] Special Branch of Royal Hong Kong Police Force
In terms of administrative hierarchy, the Special Branch (disbanded in 1995) was one of the branches of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force. It probably has much collaboration with the relevent agency in the UK, but that does not make it a division of the Special Branch of the UK. User:Huaiwei has attempted to change how the information is presented in the article [1] [2] [3]. — Instantnood June 30, 2005 14:51 (UTC):The
- The point here is that prior to 1997, HK is a colony of the United Kingdom. In the same way that we would probably classify Hong Kong's institutions as subordinates of the government in Beijing today, pre-1997 Hong Kong is basically answerable to the British government...in fact even more so to the UK than HK is to Beijing now because of "guaranteed autonomy" offered by the Chinese government. The British offer no such autonomy.--Huaiwei 6 July 2005 09:57 (UTC)
- What you are saying is true. But the way you edited the article made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force presented as a division of the Special Branch in the United Kingdom. The real fact is that it is answerable to the Hong Kong Government, which is in turn answerable to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London. The Special Branch in Hong Kong is not part of the Special Branch in the UK. — Instantnood July 6, 2005 10:27 (UTC)
- It is a part of the Hong Kong Police, which is in turn a part of the hk colonial government, which is in turn a subordinate of the British government. Is this the fact you are trying to convey?--Huaiwei 6 July 2005 11:02 (UTC)
- What you are saying is true. But the way you edited the article made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force presented as a division of the Special Branch in the United Kingdom. The real fact is that it is answerable to the Hong Kong Government, which is in turn answerable to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London. The Special Branch in Hong Kong is not part of the Special Branch in the UK. — Instantnood July 6, 2005 10:27 (UTC)
User:Huaiwei requested me to explain in his edit summary. In fact, what should be said have been said.. just that she/he doesn't seem to be satisfied. — Instantnood July 8, 2005 19:44 (UTC)
- When you fail to be able to convince in the above discussion, then of course I will not be satisfied. I believe anyone can read it too.--Huaiwei 21:42, 9 July 2005 (UTC)
- You failed to convince me either, but you insist your point of view should prevail. — Instantnood 06:59, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- Ditto when it comes to your reaction, isnt it?--Huaiwei 07:52, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- You have never explained why you consider the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force of Hong Kong as a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 08:59, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I have explained it again and again in very clear terms. The special branch of the HK police is a subordinate of the HK govt, which in turn is a subordinate of the British government. What forms the "HK special branch" is in essense a British endeavour, and is British led, and feeds on British intelligence mechanisms. Whatsmore, you dont even seem to disagree with me when I mentioned this above, so whats the issue now?--Huaiwei 09:13, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you're not answering my question. The way you presented made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. I was asking why you consider the Special Branch in Hong Kong a branch of the Special Branch of the UK. You were also told that the United Kingdom did not (and does not) consider colonies as part of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 09:42, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I am answering your question perfectly well, but you cant seem to grasp it, intentionally or otherwise. Your question is flawed, because I did not consider the HK special branch as as a branch of the British Special branch. However, I consider them to be closely linked because the one in HK is basically setup and operated by the British, so it makes sense to list this entity under the British umbrella. I dont see why this has to do with whether a colony is "considered part of the UK or not", and even then, the British consider their colonial possessions "British soil". If you do not understand what this means, take, for example, the way establishments of the British military in her colonies were treated as British establishments first and foremost, and not as local ones.--Huaiwei 09:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- To repeat myself: the way of presentation in your edit made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. (If this is not what you're trying to convey please consider rephrasing it.) Colonies are "British soil", but they are not, and never, part of the United Kingdom. Special branches are parts of the police forces rather than the military. — Instantnood 10:10, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I mentioned the military as an example, so I dont need to be told that they are part of the police, and not the military. The presentation format you adopted gives the impression that HK's special brach is completely independent from the agency in any country on Earth. That is simply untrue. This presentation establishes that link, and is not a question of the status of British colonies.--Huaiwei 10:45, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- The Special Branch in Hong Kong was not subordinate to any intelligence or police agency in the UK, although they probably had much collaboration. User:SchmuckyTheCat added reference that Hong Kong was then a British colony in brackets.. I agree with her/his edit and had kept it. — Instantnood 11:16, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I mentioned the military as an example, so I dont need to be told that they are part of the police, and not the military. The presentation format you adopted gives the impression that HK's special brach is completely independent from the agency in any country on Earth. That is simply untrue. This presentation establishes that link, and is not a question of the status of British colonies.--Huaiwei 10:45, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- To repeat myself: the way of presentation in your edit made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. (If this is not what you're trying to convey please consider rephrasing it.) Colonies are "British soil", but they are not, and never, part of the United Kingdom. Special branches are parts of the police forces rather than the military. — Instantnood 10:10, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I am answering your question perfectly well, but you cant seem to grasp it, intentionally or otherwise. Your question is flawed, because I did not consider the HK special branch as as a branch of the British Special branch. However, I consider them to be closely linked because the one in HK is basically setup and operated by the British, so it makes sense to list this entity under the British umbrella. I dont see why this has to do with whether a colony is "considered part of the UK or not", and even then, the British consider their colonial possessions "British soil". If you do not understand what this means, take, for example, the way establishments of the British military in her colonies were treated as British establishments first and foremost, and not as local ones.--Huaiwei 09:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you're not answering my question. The way you presented made the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. I was asking why you consider the Special Branch in Hong Kong a branch of the Special Branch of the UK. You were also told that the United Kingdom did not (and does not) consider colonies as part of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 09:42, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I have explained it again and again in very clear terms. The special branch of the HK police is a subordinate of the HK govt, which in turn is a subordinate of the British government. What forms the "HK special branch" is in essense a British endeavour, and is British led, and feeds on British intelligence mechanisms. Whatsmore, you dont even seem to disagree with me when I mentioned this above, so whats the issue now?--Huaiwei 09:13, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- You have never explained why you consider the Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force of Hong Kong as a branch of the Special Branch of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 08:59, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- Ditto when it comes to your reaction, isnt it?--Huaiwei 07:52, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- You failed to convince me either, but you insist your point of view should prevail. — Instantnood 06:59, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- How about the way it's written now? (Special Branch on one line; Special Branch of the Royal Hong Kong Police on another) Dbinder 19:53, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
- The problem here is that colonies (as well as crown dependencies such as the Isle of Man and Jersey, and the present-day overseas territories) are not considered part of the United Kingdom, and therefore special branches of the colonies are not agencies of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 20:03, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
- Then put Hong Kong as a separate section and "as British territory" or something to the effect. It shouldn't be as it was before, with Hong Kong listed under the UK, and then Special Branch of... under Hong Kong. As Huaiwei said, it made it sound like Hong Kong was a military branch. Dbinder 21:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
- That's what I did [4]. User:SchmuckyTheCat added the words "British colonial period" in brackets [5] and I agreed with that. User:Huaiwei was not satisfied with it, and went on to modified it, effectively implying the Special Branch in Hong Kong is a division of the Special Branch in the UK [6]. She/he said in the edit summary that " The secret service in HK is a branch of the one in the UK " [7], and " and during HK's colonial era, the colony answers to its British master " [8] (which she/he later denied by saying " Your question is flawed, because I did not consider the HK special branch as as a branch of the British Special branch " [9] and " This presentation establishes that link " [10]). — Instantnood 21:27, July 22, 2005 (UTC) (modified 10:09, July 23, 2005 (UTC))
- I am fully agreeable to the current version by Dbinder. I started wondering why I didnt think of this presentation format before! :D--Huaiwei 05:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- Then put Hong Kong as a separate section and "as British territory" or something to the effect. It shouldn't be as it was before, with Hong Kong listed under the UK, and then Special Branch of... under Hong Kong. As Huaiwei said, it made it sound like Hong Kong was a military branch. Dbinder 21:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
- The problem here is that colonies (as well as crown dependencies such as the Isle of Man and Jersey, and the present-day overseas territories) are not considered part of the United Kingdom, and therefore special branches of the colonies are not agencies of the United Kingdom. — Instantnood 20:03, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Canadian section
in the Canadian section, there is a redlink to Canadian Forces Intelligence Branch. There is also an already created page called Intelligence Branch (Canadian Forces). Are these the same agencies? NorthernThunder 00:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sweden is gone
The headline 'Sweden' have disaprerd from the list. the swedish intelligence agencies are now listed under Spain. Can anyone that knows how to, change this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AndersM123 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC).
