Talk:List of freshwater islands in Scotland

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Contents

[edit] Crannogs

Why are these being excluded? Wouldn't it be better to include them, but to note that they are crannogs? Brewphilip 19:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It may well be. It probably depends on how many crannogs there are. If the are many tens of them they would probably be better off as a separate list (as this list is separate from List of islands of Scotland). I'd suggest starting a separate section for them that can be made into its own list as required. I doubt that many have their own articles, so I suggest avoiding red-linking them all at this stage. Ben MacDui (Talk) 07:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I wish I knew how many crannogs there are (even those that are still visible above the water!), but who other than "those in the know" would be aware when seeing them that they were crannogs? I think they should be placed within this list and (if need be) a separate list of them can be set up. Alternatively if the decision is to go with a separate list, it should be clearly shown where any loch already listed also contains crannogs!

The crannogs that I am aware of are Keppinch (or 'The Kitchen') on Loch Lomond; the small crannog at the western end of Loch Earn (near Edinample Castle) and (possibly) Neish Island at the eastern end; there are also a few on Loch Awe - about 20 according to the Kilmartin Monuments site [1] (the Kilmartin Monuments site also mentions crannogs on Lochs Ederline and Leathan! [2]). Brewphilip 09:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

You can find crannog sites by registering to use the Canmore database. 95 in Argyll and Bute alone! Lurker (said · done) 10:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islands on Loch Lomond

LochLomond.net [3] lists the following islands on Loch Lomond:

Aber Isle
Bucinch
Ceardach
Clairinsh
Creinch
Eilan Deargannan
Ellanderroch
Fraoch Eilean
Inchcailloch
Inchconnachan
Inchcruin
Inchfad
Inchgalbraith
Inchlonaig
Inchmoan
Inchmurrin
Inchtavannach
Inveruglas Isle
Island I Vow
The Ross Islands
Tarbet Isle
Torrinch
Wallace's Isle

I'm not sure if they fit in to your criteria (although I don't believe any of those in the list are crannogs). Brewphilip 20:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. Please add any missing ones, plus the reference. Drop me a note if you need any assistance with this. Ben MacDui (Talk) 07:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I have added the missing islands, but don't know how the references are added so will leave that up to someone else! Brewphilip 09:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Dow's list includes - Eilean Vow and Inchvannich. Also I suspect "Fraoch Eilean" is better than the "Fraoch" you see on some lists. --MacRusgail 13:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Eilean Vow and Eilean I Vow are the same island - I have seen both variations mentioned, but the latter is the one listed on the OS map (NN331127). However I haven't seen Inchvannich listed - so it is either meant to be Inchtavannach or it is one of the unnamed islands (at least on the OS map) on the loch! Brewphilip 10:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Dow lists it as "Monks' Island" - presumably this is either, Innis Mhanaich, or "Innis Taigh Mhanaich" (Monastery/Monkhouse Island). --MacRusgail 10:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
According to wiki, Inchtavannach is the island of the monk's house from the Gaelic Innis Tigh a' Mhanaich - so I guess this is the island refered to by Dow! Out of curiosity, are you taking your information from a book or website? Either way a reference would be nice! Brewphilip 11:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I know enough Gàidhlig to work out what it is, especially when a translation is also presented. By the way, the spelling "tigh" is archaic. "Taigh" is the proper spelling. --MacRusgail 16:50, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry mate I didn't mean to imply that you don't know Gaelic... in fact its obvious that you know a lot more than I do! Anyway, if you think wiki is wrong with the Gaelic version of Inchtavannach maybe you should correct it! Brewphilip 16:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
No problem. "Tigh" is one of those words whose spelling has been changed a few decades ago, just because according to spelling rules it should be pronounced "chee", but is actually pronounced "tie". I don't know if the OS has followed suite, their policy towards Gaidhlig has been uneven in recent years. --MacRusgail 19:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

I have added a references section to the end of the page, so you can put them in to the text now and they will be automatically listed in that section. I've also made a photo gallery of the main lochs listed, as far as possible. With regard to crannogs perhaps they could be better listed on the existing article about Crannogs? Richard Harvey 10:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

With well over a hundred known or suspected crannog sites in Scotland, we's defintely need a separate article. Lurker (said · done) 11:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that a list of crannogs should be created separately, but I still think this list should mention the existing of crannogs on those lochs already listed! Brewphilip 11:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The sites of suspected crannogs are highly controversial... some present ambiguous archaeological evidence, particularly if they are inland (as many of them now are - there's a possible two or three in drained (formerly marshy) areas of Edinburgh for example.) But such a list would be good. --MacRusgail 19:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I think as many of the images should be linked to the text as possible, to brighten up the list, rather than being put into a gallery at the end. Also I think the image of Inchmahome Priory is relevant as it is a notable institution on a freshwater island. --MacRusgail 12:29, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

To make the page work with images scattered through the text then it it would need to be taken out of a listing format and redone in a prose style. That would defeat the objective of the article which as it title states is a 'List of Freshwater Islands'. Richard Harvey 13:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
It's done in other articles e.g. Scottish place names in other countries, List of Scottish Islands, so I think it would be worthwhile doing here. It certainly makes the list a bit less dry and easier on the eye. --MacRusgail 14:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with the photos being in a gallery at the end of the article, but I think as this is a list of freshwater islands then it would be better if the photos actually showed at least one island, not just the water they can be found on! Brewphilip 20:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Seven of the images in the gallery show islands on them. The wikimedia commons link I included when I created the gallery gives access to other images, for those wishing to look at them. The article:- Scottish place names in other countries has images down the page and looks rather messy. The article:- [List of Scottish Islands]] which has images down the section where images are listed in a table format does look much better. If this article could be done in table format then I would agree that the images should be placed down the side of the table, but not in its current format. Richard Harvey 21:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Can I suggest a compromise? Those that show islands can be put amongst the text, and those that don't can be put in the gallery. I'm not a great fan of galleries (wikipedia variety). As Richard says, many of them do show islands. I also think the picture of Inchmahome Priory is important as it doesn't show any water, but is quite definitely on an island. --MacRusgail 13:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The picture of Inchmahome Priory would have been more relevant here instead of the picture of the Lake of Menteith looking towards Port or Menteith. That would then bring the number of images showing islands up to 8, although there are 16 images in total and that in my opinion isn't a high enough percentage when the point of this article is the islands! Brewphilip 09:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the Lake of Mentieth image is not good, but that was all I could locate in the Wikimedia listings. With regard to having loads of images. Perhaps my conception of the articles title is different to others. With the title being that of a 'List' of Freshwater island I assumed that it was designed to act as a quick reference list of articles that would then be accessed, via a wiki-link, to get the information from the article itself, rathr than repeating the information in both places. For example the Inchmahome Priory image is shown on the Inchmahome Priory article. Having had a look at the List of islands of Scotland article then I agree that more images would be suitable if the same article format was used. Laying out text etc is not really my forte. However photo's are and I do enjoy getting out to normally inaccessible places to take as good a photo as possible. If the locations of the various freshwater island were shown I could sort out some time to take a driving trip up into Scotland to get round them. Richard Harvey 12:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Loch Tay

Apart from crannogs, I have counted at least 4 islands on this loch and yet only one seems to be named - Isle of Spar (OS Ref. NN773451). The other islands can be found at OS Refs. NN766453 (with the remains of a castle/manor house); NN588334; and the largest at NN584333! Does anyone know the names of these other islands? Brewphilip13:03 23 October