Talk:List of foreign MLS players
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[edit] New players?
According to the MLS Facts & Records book, these five guys were not born in the USA, and it looks like they belong here. None were capped for the USA's youth teams, right?
Cris da Silva – Argentina
Nino Da Silva – Brazil
Edmundo Rodriguez – Mexico
Michael Butler – Liberia
Fernando Fernandes – Angola
I'll add them. --Scaryice 02:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] League/Playoffs only?
I ask because there have been 10 players who have played for their teams in official matches but not MLS. That would be the Open Cup or an international tournament (not including preseason tournaments like La Manga or Peace Cup). At least three of those players would be on this list:
Ivan Becerra, Mexico Alex Dixon, Panama--Scaryice 02:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC) Jorge Geddes, Malawi
--Scaryice 12:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, MLS/playoffs only ("To appear on this list, they must play at least one MLS regular season or playoff game for the respective club") If it's expanded, I know Greg Simmonds needs to be listed for DC as well. DR31 (talk) 14:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Also, I don't see any need for Metrostars and New York to be listed differently here; they're the same franchise. They should all be NY. --Scaryice 02:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. --87.3.55.125 10:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
- I do not. The team was not called "New York" 1996-2005. To say anyone played for "New York" pre-2006 is incorrect. DR31
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- First of all, the team did have New York in it for several years. Second, it's the same franchise, and New York is the current name for it. Do you have different categories for Dallas Burn and FC Dallas? Kansas City Wiz and Kansas City Wizards? It's not like the team changed cities. It's always been based in New York. I don't see any reason to have them as seperate categories, unless you do that for every single team and for every single name change, and that would be pointless. --Scaryice 08:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- And I do see the reason for it. Yes, it's the same franchise, but the team was NOT "New York" until 2006. Dallas was always "Dallas". And the page doesn't say "Dallas Burn", it says "Dallas". Leonel Álvarez's page doesn't say he played for "FC Dallas", it says he played for the "Dallas Burn". But the same token, it is INCORRECT to call the club "New York" until 2006. It is impossible for someone to play for "New York" until 2006. Do not rewrite history please. If you want a compromise, I'll pipe the MetroStars links to go to RBNY: [[Red Bull New York|MetroStars]]. DR31 (talk) 15:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- Are you forgetting the NY/NJ Metrostars? Are you going to list that separately too? It's always been New York, even if they didn't include that as part of the name the whole time. This is just common sense. The simplest thing to do is use New York in all instances. Given that your user page says "Metro Forever," it's very likely that you're biased on this issue. You were in favor of keeping the Metrostars page separate too. That's a bad decision as well. It's the same franchise, with the same stats and history.--Scaryice 04:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- And I do see the reason for it. Yes, it's the same franchise, but the team was NOT "New York" until 2006. Dallas was always "Dallas". And the page doesn't say "Dallas Burn", it says "Dallas". Leonel Álvarez's page doesn't say he played for "FC Dallas", it says he played for the "Dallas Burn". But the same token, it is INCORRECT to call the club "New York" until 2006. It is impossible for someone to play for "New York" until 2006. Do not rewrite history please. If you want a compromise, I'll pipe the MetroStars links to go to RBNY: [[Red Bull New York|MetroStars]]. DR31 (talk) 15:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- First of all, the team did have New York in it for several years. Second, it's the same franchise, and New York is the current name for it. Do you have different categories for Dallas Burn and FC Dallas? Kansas City Wiz and Kansas City Wizards? It's not like the team changed cities. It's always been based in New York. I don't see any reason to have them as seperate categories, unless you do that for every single team and for every single name change, and that would be pointless. --Scaryice 08:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- Please stop beating a dead horse. Enough people think there is enough difference to keep the pages separate. It's not about the same franchise; FIFA considers Yugoslavia the same as Serbia and Montenegro and the same as Serbia, but there is enough reason to keep separate pages. The FA considers Wimbledon the same as MK Dons, but there are separate pages. The MLB considers the Expos and Nationals to be the same franchise, but there are separate pages. Formula 1 considers Jaguar Racing and Red Bull Racing to be the same franchise, but there are separate pages. Even MLS, in trying to remove "MetroStars" in places, still keeps it for all the players that played for the team: Guevara: 2003 MetroStars 2004 MetroStars 2005 MetroStars 2006 New York Donadoni: 1996 MetroStars 1997 MetroStars. This has been beaten to death. Please; I've spent a lot of time trying to keep this page up to date over the years. I've completely curbed my contribution to Wikipedia exactly because of ridiculous in-fighting. Please stop reverting the page. Preserve history. Don't put lies out there. The MetroStars were NOT New York between 1998 and 2005, and they were only partially NY in 1996 and 1997. DR31 (talk) 13:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
- Let me ask you this: Your reasoning for using Metrostars instead of New York on this topic is because the words New York weren't in the official name. I understand that, even if I think it's an incredibly minor thing. However, you also feel that Metrostars and New York should have separate pages despite being officially being the same team. How can you use the official history of MLS in one category and ignore it in the other? It's obvious that you're incredibly biased on this topic.--Scaryice 09:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I think in a controversie we should adopt the MLS-standard. if MLS separates MetroStars and New York, also if I disagree, let's use it. And, however, Dr31 is the creator of the page and he should decide what he think is best. --necronudist 14:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Dorman (and other questionable players)
He is not eligible to play for Wales, as he was born in England. His parents and grandparents are both English as well. See here. --Scaryice 12:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Brilliant, but seems that Jamie Clark [1] and Alen Kozic [2] are Americans (also if Jamie Clark was born in England). --87.3.55.125 13:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC) (ex-Necronudist)
- Clark is Scottish-born: http://web.archive.org/web/20000122042518/http://mlsnet.com/bios/jamie_clark.html DR31 (talk) 14:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes but, you know, they're considered Americans...why? Have they played for any USA national team? If not, I think they can be considered Scottish and Serbian, also if they both made college in USA, and maybe they were raised there from childhood. --87.3.55.125 14:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Who considers them American? Playerhistory.com, which is not always correct? For all we know, these players have dual nationality, or maybe had green cards, meaning they were not counted as foreigners in MLS. I couldn't find any info about either Kozic nor Clark playing for the US on any level, so until that info is unraveled, they stay here: this is a list of foreign-born players without US caps. DR31 (talk) 16:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Well guy, is exactly what I said. And, however, I just noticed that they are considered Americans by that website without saying it's the TRUTH, is just better to be sure. --87.3.55.125 16:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Who considers them American? Playerhistory.com, which is not always correct? For all we know, these players have dual nationality, or maybe had green cards, meaning they were not counted as foreigners in MLS. I couldn't find any info about either Kozic nor Clark playing for the US on any level, so until that info is unraveled, they stay here: this is a list of foreign-born players without US caps. DR31 (talk) 16:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes but, you know, they're considered Americans...why? Have they played for any USA national team? If not, I think they can be considered Scottish and Serbian, also if they both made college in USA, and maybe they were raised there from childhood. --87.3.55.125 14:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Jack Stewart will play for Canada. He's been in two camps for them already. I think it's fair to add him now. --Scaryice 10:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think so, he simply "has pledged international commitment to Canada" and he trained with Canadian nft in a couple of stages but he
has never been cappedhas never played any official match for that nft and, as far as I know, this is the criterion for being considered a representer of another nation (like the "1-MLS game" is the criterion for being considered an MLS player) Am I Wrong?). --87.3.55.125 10:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] *
To whoever is reverting the players with *; I've been updating this page since I first put it on Wikipedia and am still responsible for probably 95% of the updates (from various IPs). I used to use commented out pending transactions, but it was much more difficult to maintain, as it is not that easy to see these pending transactions. I'm trying to use * for now to see if it will be easier to update. DR31 (talk) 23:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
It's me. Congratulations for your work. However, I was just mantaining your work vandal-free, if you edit it with your account I understand that it's you and I don't revert! --82.50.16.60 10:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC) P.S.: I think it would be better to write pendings in bold, an asterisk is too dispersive. Pendings must be noticed. --82.50.16.60 10:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for watching out; I'm gonna try italics, bold will stand out too much. DR31 (talk) 13:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] For convenience
A list of foreign players still on MLS rosters who have yet to see minutes:
Just for general reference. Bill Oaf 03:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, Becerra has been cut. And, of course, there are other foreigners on rosters now who have yet to play. See below Bill Oaf 00:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- Added Oka, who got in tonight. Bill Oaf 02:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] And a list of foreign NASL players?
Ok, this work is awesome and inspired me for the List of foreign Serie A players, but how about making a list of foreign NASL players? Pelé, Cruyff, Beckenbauer... am I crazy? --87.3.59.19 20:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC) (ex-Necronudist)
[edit] Heads-up on new foreigners
Brand new, none of them have played yet. Some have been added as transfers, others were drafted:
- Richard Asante, draftee, is Canadian
- Jorge Barrera, pending transfer, is Mexican. Added in italics
Andrew Boyens, draftee, is from New Zealand+ADDEDRoberto Brown, pending transfer, is Panamanian. Added in italics+ADDED- Edwin Borboa, pending transfer, is Mexican. Added in italics
Kasali Yinka Casal, pending transfer, is English. Someone else added him in italics.+ADDEDFred, pending transfer, is Brazilian. Added in italics+ADDEDMaykel Galindo, pending transfer, is Cuban, Added in italics+ADDEDAbbe Ibrahim will almost certainly be playing with Toronto FC in 2007+ADDED- Kosuke Kimura, draftee, is Japanese. I added him in italics without thinking about it and haven't removed him yet
- Guy-Roland Kpene, draftee, is Ivorian
- Tommy Križanović, draftee, is Croatian
- Yherland McDonald, pending transfer, is Costa Rican. Added in italics
- Jerson Monteiro, draftee, was born in Angola and appears to have possibly played for them in some capacity
- Kurt Morsink, draftee, has dual nationality, Costa Rica and USA
- Osei Telesford, draftee, is from Trinidad
Juan Carlos Toja, pending loan, is an Argentine+ADDEDRonald Waterreus, pending transfer, is Dutch. Someone else added him in italics+ADDEDAndy Welsh, pending transfer, is English. Added in italics+ADDED
- Good work. --necronudist 09:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
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- Thanks. I'd add the following to that list above, since they have now definitely signed:
- Randi Patterson, draftee, is Jamaican
Sinisa Ubiparipovic, draftee, is Bosnian (flagicon BIH)+ADDED
- Bill Oaf 21:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- Also now definitely signed:
- Tomer Chencinski, undrafted trialist at TFC, is Canadian
- Andrew Gray, undrafted trialist at TFC, is Canadian
- David Guzman, undrafted trialist at TFC, is Canadian
- Tyler Hemming, supplemental draftee at TFC, is Canadian
- Andrea Lombardo, some sort of mystery transfer to TFC, is Canadian
- Stephen Lumley, mysteriously-acquired player at TFC, is Canadian
- Bill Oaf 13:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- New signings:
- Bryan Byrne, newly-signed draftee at NER, is from the Republic of Ireland
- Laurent Merlin, signed trialist at Chivas USA, is French
- Bill Oaf 00:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
- Also now definitely signed:
- Thanks. I'd add the following to that list above, since they have now definitely signed:
[edit] Rodrigo Lopez
By the strict standards of the list, this current Chivas USA dev roster guy should be on here. He was born in Mexico, moved with his parents to the US at age 2, and has not participated with US youth or senior national teams. Do we really add guys who moved here when they were 2, however? Bill Oaf 01:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Fact data are that he was born in Mexico and he never played for any USA team. If you can traceback childhood of every player on the list, then we can change criteria. --necronudist 08:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Hm, I might just make that a long-term project. Could be a good idea to set a standard and weed out some of the guys didn't spend much of their lives in the country they're listed for. Bill Oaf 00:47, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Canadians foreigners?
Surely as MLS is the American and Canadian first division league, then Canadian players playing for Toronto FC in Canada would not be foriegn MLS players. Though particuarly as Toronto FC has a limit on the number of American players, then perhaps Americans playing for Toronto FC would be foreign MLS players? Nfitz 19:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Good question. I was thinking about this from months. I think that we should consider foreigners all the Canadian players until 2006, obviously writing an explaining note. It would be paradoxical to consider foreigners Toronto Americans and non-Toronto Canadians, but I think MLS thinks this. --necronudist 13:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Since the MLS is a US and Canadian league, US and Canadian players don't count as foreigner players, since they're native to that league. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.96.163 (talk) 15:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Delete?
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Non-Russian players in Russian Football Premier League 2007 and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of foreign Premier League players. Kappa 17:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- No way. --necronudist 17:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
