Talk:List of fiction inspired by Dune

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Contents 1 Speculation vs Reporting 2 Problems 3 Need a publication history 4 More mention of Joseph Campbell's research needed 5 Tremors 6 Explanations for Deleting Material 7 (No heading) 8 Trigun 9 Glory Road

[edit] Speculation vs Reporting

There's a big difference between sharing certain thematic material with and being directly (or even indirectly) influenced by something. This article confuses the two. --RobertDaeley 17:34, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That and it should at least source the purported influences. This article should report, not speculate.--Rev Prez 14:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Many authors often do not openly cite influences, depending on how much their respective works are influenced. In this case speculating is reporting by neccessity. --Scotto 10:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

In light of the above comments I went ahead and tagged the article with a {{cleanup-verify}} tag. I don't know how to fix the article myself (beyond deleting every unverified fact) but hopefully the tag will attract a knowledgable editor. --CVaneg 22:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Scotto: Then you report the speculations of others and cite those sources. The "No original research" rule applies. --BluePlatypus 11:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

i see what you mean, the article should be cleanned up in a way, or re-done drawing a line between simmilarity and influence. Wich in both cases, i just wouldnt know wich is wich, the Dune novels have been read by so many of the invisible writters that both George Lucas or the Wachowsky brothers might use that its impossible to see it straight. The biggest case is of course Star Wars, particulary in the newer episodes, were the simmilarities are just too much to just say that its a coincidence there. About the Matrix i wouldnt really know. One thing that could be sayd is that the bone structure of the first novel (wich is that a magical messiah, who doesnt know that hes a messiah, leads a group of opressed people against their opressors) has becomed a standard cliche for pretty much many of the latest sci-fi movies.

I removed speculation about Jabba and added details to the similarities. About the removed speculation: Lucas has added the "worm centaur" Jabba to the reedition of A New Hope in lieu of the "human with a fur coat" he had originally filmed and opted not to include. He has also stated that he had always intended Jabba to be in this scene and to look that way, but his budget and the technical conditions at the time did not permit it. Unfortunatly, I do not, have access to the commentary or assorted bonus material on the reedition to find the source of this official Lucas statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.53.224 (talk) 22:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The recent addition about the planet Vulcan in Star Trek simply reinforces RobertDaeley's observation above from nearly three years ago: similarity is not proof of "inspiration". A lot of the content on the main page is OR, pure and simple. Unless sources can be found documenting where the authors/creators of other works have acknowledged a debt to the Dune series (or, in absence of such, where someone has proposed such a link in a critical analysis of the works), most of the content should be removed. --SandChigger (talk) 04:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problems

This article seriously needs details. The Matrix borrows from Dune in many elaborate ways beyond the simple messiah theme.

Also Star Wars features "dumbed down" versions of much of Dune's motifs and themes. I will edit it myself</nowiki>

[edit] Need a publication history

I just spend almost 40 minutes looking on the internet for list of the Dune novels and prequel novels writter by Frank Herbert, Brian Herbert and/or Kevin Anderson. For some reason, I can't find one. If such a list exists, PLEASE tell me where the list is, and I'll add it. If not, maybe some sleepless night, I'll compile one myself. Zidel333 05:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[List commented out by — TAnthony^Talk 22:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC) ]

PS Who says I have a life?? :D

I've commented out this long list of Dune works, which is cumbersome and out of place here, and obviously available at Dune universe. — TAnthony^Talk 22:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More mention of Joseph Campbell's research needed

I agree with that this article confuses reporting with speculation (see first topic), and that it has problems (see second topic). But the most glaring deficiency of this article is that it barely mentions the writings of Joseph Campbell. Campbell was published well before Dune, Star Wars, Nausciaä, or The Matrix were even conceived. It's a bit silly to state that Star Wars, Nausciaä, and The Matrix are derivative of Dune alone, without mentioning that in The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell compiles and compares three thousand years of myth from all over the world, that includes messianic figures, twins, feuding houses, and other themes that occur throughout all of these works. The single sentence that mentions the Hero's Journey at the beginning of the article is not enough, because listing all these similarities as though every one of them originated with Dune almosts contradicts that, and that's rather inaccurate. Comme le Lapin 06:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tremors

I remember an old episode of Prisoners of Gravity where it was stated that the short-story that inspired Tremors actually pre-dates Dune. I haven't been able to confirm this yet, but I'll keep looking into it.--Pariah (talk) 03:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

It should also be mentioned that, both the sandworms of Dune and the graboids of Tremors are attracted to vibrations. In both stories, the creatures burrow through the sand toward people walking or machines operating on the surface. In Tremors, this is obviously predatory behavior. In Dune, it is not clear whether the worms are attacking their prey, or simply reacting to an aggravating disturbance. Nevertheless, the similarity is there. In the Bonus Materials to the Tremors Collectors Edition DVD, writer Steve S. Wilson states where he first got the idea for Tremors. He was working for the Navy and sitting on a large rock, when the creative idea occurred to him of being stranded on that rock and being unable to get down, because something predatory lived in the ground around him. There is no reason to doubt Wilson's account of his inspiration. However, given that Tremors was released in 1989 (well after both the original Dune novels and the David Lynch film had been released), it is possible that part of Wilson's creative process unwittingly involved the story of Dune as well.--Gaddy (talk) 15:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Explanations for Deleting Material

I removed the paragraph claiming Jedi ethics were similar to Ginaz ethics, and equating Duncan's sacrifice to save Paul with Obi-Wan's sacrifice to save Luke. Since no details about their ethics appear in the original Dune series, there's no way this is an influence. The two sacrifices aren't very comparable, either. - Tiresias BC (talk) 03:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] (No heading)

You silly silly buggers. Stretching it a bit here, aren't you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 (talk) 21:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trigun

Anyone been able to find anything that supports the idea of Trigun being influenced by Dune? There are a number of similarities, not least being the sandworms in episode 24 (I think). Henre (talk) 22:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glory Road

The Glory Road article says it was first serialized from July to September 1963, and of course Dune was serialized from 1963 to 1965. So I think I'd like to see more evidence of who influenced who ... and of course, the entire article really needs sources of all of its claims anyway. — TAnthony^Talk