Talk:List of department stores

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[edit] Moved text

I have moved text related to the United Kingdom to List of department stores of the United Kingdom.
I think the list is of sufficient size and quality to have its own page. This has already been done by another user for text relating to the United States. This change allows for 'List of department stores of the United Kingdom' to be better categorized and this article to be reduced in length. AndrewSE19

[edit] Clean-up

Please list stores alphabetically.
Please enter the location of the store in brackets next to its name. When listing a department store group please enter the location of the flagship or original store and write 'and branches' next to the location. Example:

AndrewSE19

[edit] Foreign Stores

I've noticed that Wal-Mart has been added to nearly every country. Is this a list of locally (as in started in that country) owned stores or just a list of places where the American chain stores have invaded? ☭ Zippanova 17:36, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's a point to consider. When I was adding to this list, I left the apostrophes out of names because I've noticed that the stores don't seem to use them - in the UK, that is. However, when I saw Woolworth's down as "F. W. Woolworth's", it struck me that it ought to be "Woolworth" (singular), because that's what it says on their sign. But that might only apply in Britain. Anybody got any authoritative opinions? Deb

I agree with you that the terminology is "iffy". I know that in the US, no one would say they were going to Sak, Woolworth, or Macy, they'd say they were going to Sak's, Woolworth's, or Macy's. Some of the store names seem to retain the apostrophe, others not, probably based on how often they are used as part of a possessive phrase (Sak's Fifth Avenue, e.g.). Either way, I think this list might inspire articles on a very much encylopedically neglected subject. -- Someone else 22:21 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

When I started this list, I was thinking of famous individual stores, rather than chain stores. I don't know if anyone thinks there should be two lists or not. Personally I'm not fussed. Mintguy

Most of the stores listed, in the US anyway, are chains even if they are limited to one city, in that they have suburban branches, etc. Saks Fifth Avenue (founded by Horace Saks and therefore not possessive) has more than 60 branches and one store on Fifth Avenue. As for the other apostrophes, I suppose it should be on a case-by-case basis, but it is common in logos, corporate names, etc., to lose the apostrophe. Ortolan88

Yes, you're right. Even Selfridges has more than one store, I believe. Deb

Probably best to go by the corporate names, I guess (though they themselves are inconsistent, Macy's is currently using an asterisk in place of their apostrophe). I started to look up info and thought it might be interesting to have the date of founding, founder, date of incorporation, location of first store, and ultimate fates of stores listed but tables are so complicated. I came up with this in preformatted text:

Store              founded    at              by                incorporated  disposition
Brooks Brothers       1818
Wanamaker             xxxx Philadelphia        John Wanamaker
Bamberger's           1892 Newark, New Jersey  Louis Bamberger                sold to Macy 1929
May Department Stores 1877 Leadville, Colorado David May                 1910 extant
Woolworth             1879 [[]]                Frank Winfield Woolworth  1911 extant
Macy's                1857 New York            Rowland H. Macy           [[]] extant
Bloomingdale's        1872 [[]] [[]] [[]] 
Marshall Field's      1852 Chicago, Illinois         [[]] [[]] 
Saks Fifth Avenue     1924 New York            Horace Saks               [[]] extant
Gimbel's              xxxx New York            Bernard Gimbel            [[]] merged with Saks to become Saks Fifth Avenue

But is it worth including this information, and can anyone think of a better way to present it? -- Someone else 20:30 Dec 16, 2002 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I can see how that kind of information might be useful. However, I imagine that people will create individual articles for all these stores, and the dates, etc, can go into those.

Here's another point about names - "House of Fraser" is a British chain, and a household name, but it's not actually the name of any department store, it's just the firm that owns Harrods and various others. I think the same is true of several others. Is that the case in the US as well? Deb

I take your point, but just to clarify. "House of Fraser" doesn't own Harrods. also i've found a good information resource ( http://www.browneyedsheep.com/departmentstoreUKind.htm ) for the article related to UK stores.\\
House of Fraser do have a chain of department stores, branded simply as "House of Fraser", in the UK.

It's fine for May Department Stores to have its own page, but this page is about the place of department stores in the culture, so the Jack Benny material should be here too, I think. Most list pages are more readable and more useful if they have these "one-liners" included. Ortolan88

[edit] Blast from the past?

How come half of the entries for Canada are admittedly no-longer-existing stores? Is that even the point? I mean, if you're going to list stores that have closed down or been taken over by other companies, what is the limit – there's an entry for a store that disappeared in 1992! &#150 ? Redux 02:46, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It is not the fault of Canadians that American stores corner the market by making hostile takeovers of Canadian stores and then force the Canadian public into shopping the monopoly. The memory of these stores is all we have left of our pride. --Zippanova 05:32, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
Ummm... I think that's overstating the situation. Like a lot of retail sectors, Canadian department stores have undergone a consolidation over the past sixty years as local and regional chain are bought out by expanding national chains. You will notice that several of the former chains identified (Simpson's, Morgan's, Towers) have been consolidated into Hudson's Bay Company/Zellers, which is still Canadian-owned.
As far as Redux's comments, I'm not clear why we wouldn't include defunct stores. Is Wikipedia only a record of the present, or should it not include historical articles as well? I will break the list out into current and past since the current list seems to upset you. Ground Zero 13:40, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
I welcome the addition of former stores: it's great to look back at the past and see what used to be. In fact, I'd love to see more stores added. Knob Hill Farms, anyone? Tenspeeder 01:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is a department store?

I'm noticing a lot of the Canada stores mentioned here aren't what I'd consider a "department store" (ie. Best Buy, Home Depot, etc... which I would classify as a home electronics store and a hardware store instead.) Should this list be pared down and the others moved to a different category, or am I missing something here? 142.217.16.115 21:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

No, you're right. They're not department stores. I've removed them --thickslab 23:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I have marked this article as {{cleanup-list}} because it is unverified and I believe this list is indiscriminate. The problem is with including stores such as Kmart, Target, and Wal-Mart, which are discount stores. In my opinion, discount stores are not department stores. Some discount store chains were made by department store companies (Target was the first such chain); however not all discount store chains were made this way, such as Kmart and Wal-Mart. Tuxide 20:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the list seems indiscriminate in places. Do you think that some smaller department stores should be removed from the list? My knowledge of department stores is of those in the UK where their place in local communities is often very important to social history and indicative of a town's commercial significance. A large department store such as Selfridges is world famous and undoubtedly should be included but a small store such as Fields of Sidmouth is just as important if you live in Sidmouth. I don't see the point of having a list of department stores at all unless it is comprehensive. AndrewSE19 06:56, 1 October 2006

I have very mixed views on this. In the UK (only place I can speak with real experience) many department stores have been around a fair while. I am not certain about Fields but I'm guessing in excess of 100 years and there are quite a few in the 150+ years league. Does that mean they are "notable" or should be on Wiki? Not certain but on balance marginally in favour if there is that kind of history behind them? Regards --Nigel (Talk) 10:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a newbie in Wikepedia and I edited "list of Department stores in the Philippines", I followed the other countries format and research and found website links of the department stores I know. However I received a message saying that I added a commercial site and that it is not allowed. If this is so why then on other countries like the USA, external links are being use. Also I just edited I'm not a billinonaire to own a department store, this is just one topic I'm accustomed to so I edited it because I encountered the link on the search engine and it encouraged me to be an editor. External links are there why can't we use it, if that is information related to the topic/list then why not use it. We are not promoting a single department store, like today before I read the new message I added 4 additional links from my previous edit, but when I saw the message of Nigel then I deleted my work again. Please advise thank you.

[edit] countries missing ?

Whilst doing some link cleanup, I noticed that countries which had been in the list previously (e.g. Australia, Austria and Belgium) have been removed. Is this a deliberate act, or an accidental edit ? CultureDrone 17:56, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More issues with Canadian stores

Removed some stores from the Canada part of this list. This is a list of department stores, meaning that stores that specialize in hardware, clothing, or anything, SHOULD NOT be included. 209.105.207.181 (talk) 05:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Pared down the list again... Please think carefully before adding stuff here, this is not a list for hardware stores, supermarkets, pharmacies, etc.... Although there are many examples of such stores selling more than just their main specialty, that does *not* make them department stores. 209.105.207.181 (talk) 04:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)