Talk:List of dead comic book characters

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[edit] Criteria for inclusion

These are the criteria that a character must satisfy in order to be included on this page:

  1. Character must exist in a fictional comic book universe in which characters sometimes come back from the dead. (E.g. no one returns in Y: The Last Man so everyone who dies in that series is excluded.)
  2. Character must have their own Wikipedia article. It should not be created expressly so the character can be on the list. (However, inclusion is fine if their article has strong potential for expansion, or they should have had an article before.)
  3. No characters with fewer than three appearances, preferably in separate story arcs.
  4. Alternate universes are usually excluded. (e.g. Ultimate Marvel, Pre-Crisis DC, Elseworlds, and What If)
    1. Characters who die in alternate universes are excluded.
    2. Characters who return or survive in alternate universes still count as dead.
    3. However, imprints such as Wildstorm or Icon may be included.
    4. Also, characters who died in Pre-Crisis DC are included if they are still definitely dead.
    5. Characters who originated in alternate universes but normally live in the main ones can be included (e.g. Rachel Summers, Power Girl)
    6. Ultimate Characters whose mainstream counterparts are alive can be included (e.g. Edwin Jarvis, Gambit).
  5. Alternate timeline doppelgangers, clones, etc. don't count as resurrections.
  6. Minds/souls returning in new bodies DO count as resurrections.
  7. There must be a strong reason to believe the character is actually dead. However, there needs not be a strong belief that they will or will not return.
  8. Any character that does return should be moved to Comic book death.
  9. Characters whose death is part of a super-hero origin should not be included (Uncle Ben, Thomas and Martha Wayne, Jor-El, etc.)

[edit] Criteria for inclusion discussion

Discuss changes to criteria here. <strike>Strikout</strike> criteria that are removed. --HKMarks 06:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I still disagree with the second one. It does not account for any important new characters that may be created in the future. The line between who "deserves" their own article and who was created just for inclusion could get too blurry.
  • I disagree with the exclusion of Pre-Crisis DC and Ultimate Marvel. Pre-Crisis DC has carryover to the present. Ultimate Marvel is a "mainstream" universe in its own right.
  • "4-1" needs to be clarified as "characters based entirely within alternate universes are excluded". Because otherwise, characters such as Rachel Summers, Bishop, or The Maestro would be excluded should they "die". King Zeal 11:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Re: Own articles, that can be determined on a case by case basis. It should be clear immediately if a brand new stub has potential for expansion.
  • Semi-agree on Pre-crisis dead people carrying over. BUT when are they "still dead" vs. "never existed" vs. "haven't shown up yet"?
  • If Ultimate characters are included a) they must not be people already in the list. We're not going to have separate entries for 616 and Ultimate Gwen Stacy, b) it must be made clear that it's the Ultimate version we're talking about. (I disagree that it's "mainstream" but that's a whole other discussion. To me it's on the same level as a TV show of the original.)
  • Agree re: Alternate universe people living in 616. BUT they don't count if they just visited once or twice. Technically they're all still living in some alternate world or another. -HKMarks 16:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I think a case-by-case basis could potentially be disaterrific.
  • Case-by-case basis with this one, too, I would imagine.
  • For Ultimate versions of characters who are also dead, we could put a parentheses tag like (Ultimate) Gwen Stacy.
  • Which is why I wanted the "recurring" rule. That would account for characters who have made more than three appearances outside of one storyarc. King Zeal 17:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
WP isn't an experiment in rulemaking, so let's only worry about problems that actually exist. It's silly to try and anticipate problems before they happen. I'd hope most people have the common sense not to include Thug #3 or anything. -HKMarks 17:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
You win, Milady. We'll do things your way for now. King Zeal 20:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What would be the ruling on members of Exiles? I'm talking specifically about Mimic in this case. He's an alternate version of the "mainstream" Mimic, but he's had more appearances than his mainstream counterpart and was one of the main characters of the series Exiles for over 50 issues. Dizzy D 00:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't recommend it... Exiles is a very tricky book. What if Mimic shows up again but is from yet another dimension? By the rules above we're not counting that as a resurrection -- but it is a de facto "back to life." My first impulse is to say "if you can make it clear that it's this one specific version." But IMHO no, we should not open the doors to alternate versions like that. Make an argument if you like, but I don't think we should because it opens the possibility for every other dead Exiles character to be on the list. -HKMarks 00:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with that reasoning, because it's a what-if reasoning (what if another Mimic is included). Should another Mimic be included in Exiles, then the article can always be adapted to show the difference (especially as his issue of death would be listed). I understand that the no alternate versions rule is there to prevent people from listing every death in stories like What-Ifs and Elseworlds, but in some cases the alternate versions have become characters in their own right (ie. Blink and Morph from Exiles, Saturnyne in Captain Britain). I think the rule still needs work. Dizzy D 11:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm curious, was a Earth-# given for his home dimension? -HKMarks 14:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Exiles Mimic was from Earth-12 according to the issue where he was buried. Dizzy D 14:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
My problem with it is more that there's more than one alternate version of the whole Marvel Universe out there. If Exiles Mimic counts, why not MC2 Captain America? But I've added it... and we'll see how it goes. -HKMarks 14:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I think it all comes down to the notability of the character in question. For instance if MC2's Spider-Girl would die, I think she should be added, having supported her own series for several years, even though she is an alternate universe counterpart of a "mainstream" universe character. But thank you for adding him. I was busy editing something myself at the same time. I have added issue 73 as the issue where he died (he was taken over by Proteus in 71, so that could also be seen as his issue of death) Dizzy D 14:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I have strong grievances about the criteria regarding alternative reality characters. Ultimate Characters whose mainstream counterparts are alive can be included (e.g. Edwin Jarvis, Gambit). I do not understand this rule, why are ultimate universe characters deserving of listing rather then any other alternate universe. Isnt this an example of wikipedia been subject to populism? Just because the ultimate trend is in vogue does that mean it is more important then other alternative universes. For example marvel has previously printed books that follow different imprints outside the 616 imprint. These imprints include : 2099 and new universe, M2. As well as other stand alone books that have long runs and have become prominent. For example guardians of the galaxy or the core characters of exiles. To resolve this perhaps we can have a list of notable alternative universes outside the main imprints that feature comic book deaths. --Dr noire 21:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of dead comic book characters

I didn't want all that work to go to waste, so I created List of dead comic book characters. It's just the list now, although I merged the Marvel and DC lists and created a separate space for cause of death. A also added some entries that were hidden in the code, but there are a few more in there. I am too tired to write an intro right now. Anyone?--Chris Griswold 08:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I've thrown one on there, but while I attempted to demonstrate notability the article is teetering on the edge of listcruft (although I'd say it hasn't dived over the other side). Possibly notes about why these remain dead in place of cause of death (avoiding OR of course)? -Markeer 11:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Good idea. Maybe we should combine the Issue/cause of death columns and create an "Impact" column.--Chris Griswold 20:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there any use for listing characters who have died only recently (2005/2006). From what I understand from the intro, these are characters who are not expected to return from the death because of their death having a permanent effect on the motivation of a character or because of memorable storyline. Dizzy D 16:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
DizzyD has a fair point, but I think the problem is that we don't know which characters are really dead, and which are, er, comic book dead so we have to assume dead is dead for the time being. Still -- I had used Sue Dibny in the intro as an example, but of course current storylines are hinting she may not stay dead, so she's a poor choice. An editor correctly changed the example to Karen Page, although I'd prefer to have one example each from Marvel and DC for simple symmetry (but for the life of me I can't think of a Gwen Stacy equivalent at DC, i.e. a non-origin important character that's killed that a main character still dwells on). -Markeer 21:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
You could use Jade for DC, but there is always a good chance that she'll return. And I fully admit that it is breaking my own recent death policy, but her death is instrumental in Kyle Rayner becoming Ion right now. I'll try to think of a better example. Dizzy D 23:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Added Alexandra DeWitt as she fulfilled the Gwen Stacy role for Kyle Rayner. -HKMarks 18:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Jean DeWolff? 惑乱 分からん 23:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Restoring a few deletions

I'm restoring Ice, Mysterio, and Ra's al Ghul because as far as I know, they're still dead. We can't make assumptions that they'll be back based on Ice being a "goddess" or Ra's having Lazarus pits. We've been told they're dead, they've been dead for a long enough time. So they're dead. Quentin Beck was impersonated after his death by his protege and his cousin and that other guy, but he's dead as a doornail unless that gets retconned in the next Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man. However, I'm leaving Bloodsport (which one? And also who??), Captain Boomerang (George "Digger" Harkness), Human Torch (Jim Hammond), and Moira MacTaggert off because I can't confirm that they're still dead. I'm leaving off Ravager (Grant Wilson) because he doesn't seem notable. And leaving Red Skull and Super Skrull off because the former is still alive, sort of, and with the latter it's unclear if his "death" was before or after his appearance in Young Avengers #12. -HKMarks 01:16, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ultimates

Why do you feel that Ultimate universe characters Beast and Gambit qualify as exceptions to the standards above? - jc37 22:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Two reasons. As stated by Bizzy D above, it depends on the notability of the character. Ultimate Beast and Ultimate Gambit were both significantly involved in the Ultimate X-Men continuity. This is not the same as if, say, Ultimate Shocker kicked the bucket in the next issue of Ultiamte Spider-man. The fine line between Ultimate and "regular" Marvel characters is that the Ultimate universe provides an excuse to kill off characters that bear no significance (such as Ultimate Marrow). However, I think those two characters had enough significance and screen time to warrant mention. King Zeal 22:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
It's interesting reading how the exceptions violate the exceptions rules, in the standards at the top. : )
I think that the simplest and "clearest" solution would be to give the ultimates their own list, since they are not a part of the the "mainstream" (Earth 616) Marvel universe (per exception rule #1). This also increases clarity. (Note that Mimic died while "in" 616, even though from an "outside" universe.) Since the goal is to reduce confusion. - jc37 22:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article should be renamed

It should be List of dead Marvel and DC comic book characters, or something similar. Since Marvel and DC are the only companies listed, it makes sense. RobJ1981 19:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

What other companies do you suggest? King Zeal 19:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Well seeing as how other companies don't revive dead characters much, this articles just needs a rename. If needed, a seperate dead comic characters list for every other comic company should be made. RobJ1981 05:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
If those other companies don't revive characters much, then what's the point of adding them? DC, Marvel and Image are far more consistent with that plot device.

However, if you feel that there's a company that needs noting, then just add them to this page. Making a bunch of different pages would, in my opinion, be overkill. King Zeal 19:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics)

His resurrection, per rule #5, does NOT count.

Alternate timeline doppelgangers, clones, etc. don't count as resurrections.

The Mar-Vell seen in Civil War: The Return is a time-traveling Captain Marvel. His future self (past self to us) is still dead. This will not change until the comics directly state that he has undone the past. King Zeal 12:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient One

This dead character seems to be forgotten in most places dealing with this subject. Yet he was the major Dr. Strange supporting character during the early years of the series.--Leocomix 00:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earth 2 characters

Most of the JSA members are missing: Atom (Al Pratt), Dr. Mid-Nite, Mr. Terrific Hawkman (Katar Hol) and Hawkwoman (Shayera) are missing I don't see the point of including minor characters like Jack Drake. Let's put characters who had their own series first.--Leocomix 00:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

??? All those characters -and- Jack Drake should be included. Lots42 01:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Typos galore

There are a very large number of typos and oddly worded sentences. Lots42 17:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Edit: Not to mention links to disam pages.... Lots42 03:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quentin Beck and the Wayneses

Quentin Beck's Wikipediapage makes it clear that he has been brought back to life, along with apicture to prove it.

Thus, he should be removed from this list.

Also, if Gwen Stacy is fit to be included, why not Thomas and Martha Wayne? Gwen Stacy's death is as much part of Spider-Man's origin as Mr. and Mrs. Wayne's death is part of Batman's origin.

And both character's death are meaningful, important events that:

a) still haunt them to this day

b) shaped them and helped them become who they are now

c) are considered a crucial part of the mythos of both characters —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agustinaldo (talk • contribs) 12:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Why is this section being considered for "obliteration"? [1] --GentlemanGhost (talk) 17:50, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I have restored this section. I have been corresponding with the anonymous user who removed it, but I as yet do not understand this person's objection to it. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 21:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)