Talk:List of cultural flags

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This article was nominated for deletion on 3 April 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Discussion 2 Move to Flags of ethnic groups 3 Frisian flag 4 West Papua 5 Aymara Flag 6 Name of the page 7 Any evidence for all these flags 8 Not the Turkmen but Persian flag 9 Scope

[edit] Discussion

I added the flag of Greenland allthough I know it could be critisised. Greenland i semi-autonomous under the Danish crown. The Greenlanders are Inuit/Kalaallit (and Scandinavian) and ruled by Europeans. So I think they might qualify for this list. But I added the flag mostly because I think it is interesting to show that most of these poeples have chosen a circle/sun as a symbol for themselves, and this flag fits that pattern. Inge 14:06, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

But the flag is the flag of Greenland, not just the flag of the Greenlandic Inuit. There are still some Danes living there (13% of population). Rmhermen 01:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Good point. You cannot compare a flag that is meant to represent an entire population based solely on residence (such as the Greenlandic or the Israeli flag) to an ethnic flag (such as the Kanak flag or the the Garifuna flag). See also the definition of an indigenous people. //Big Adamsky 09:28, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Roma people (gypsies) are not indigenous people in Europe. They are from india.

That is exactly why I want to move the article to Flags of ethnic groups - deciding who is "indigenous" or not is a difficult task and potentially very controversial! -- Himasaram 13:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Bascues and Lapps are indigenous. Finns are indigenous too, if Lapps are. Finnish language is as old as Lappish in fennoscandia.

The Finns have their own sovereign nation-state, so their flag is listed in Flags of sovereign states. -- Himasaram 01:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Flags of ethnic groups

I suggest this article is moved to Flags of ethnic groups because then the it can include flags of any ethnic group, not just those who are considered "indigenous" of a region. The alternative is to create a separate article for this, but it seems IMHO inappropriate. -- Himasaram 01:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

If there are no objections to this plan, I will make the move in a week from today. -- Himasaram 12:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frisian flag

I added the Frisian flag to the Europe part. It is already listed in the Flags of subnational entities page, however, it also repressents Frisians in Germany and in Denmark. Besides its there between the other flags of the Netherlands, therefore not giving any notice of the ethnical differences between the Dutch and the Frisians. -- A Duck

Can you provide any evidence that the Frisian flag is actually used by Frisians in Germany and Denmark? I know that the East Frisians and North Frisians in Germany have their own flags, and therefore I seriously doubt your claim.--82.135.28.22 10:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Papua

130.195.86.38 added the flag of West Papua to this article which I do not agree with. It is less an "ethnic" flag and more a "separatist" flag, which is why it is already listed over at flags of active autonomist and secessionist movements. -- Himasaram 15:08, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aymara Flag

The Aymara flag is also used by the Quechuas, so it could be actually named "Andean indigenous groups flag"

[edit] Name of the page

I do not believe ethnicities can have a flag. Flags are symbols of political value only weather they represent a tribe or some other group of people. Several of the flags featured here are for independence struggle of certain groups and do not necessarily represent the ethnicity as a whole. --Cat out 22:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Sure ethnicities can have a flag, only they generally can't be assured of a universally recognized flag when they are not backed by a government. It is possible for large segments to not recognize a flag, or even to support alternative flags. But while some of the flags on this page are primarily sponsored by independentists, the great majority are not; the concept of the ethnic flag certainly exists outside of such movements.--Pharos 04:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Any evidence for all these flags

I would invite you to provide evidence for the existence and use of most of these flags, outside the internet and outside charts of "Flags of Aspirant Peoples" or the like.

Let's start with Europe:

• Arbëreshë looks like a cut-and-paste action of the Albanian eagle onto the Italian tricolore. Any sources?
• Basque people is okay, of course
• Bulgarian minority in Hungary: this flag is not the ethnic flag, but an organizational flag, see [1]
• Bulgarian-Turkish People: according to [2] this is not an ethnic flag, but a flag of a political party
• Crimean Tartars: seems about okay
• Danish minority of Southern Schleswig: this flag is not used anymore, as far as I know; it was used shortly after WW2 by the SSW party, but not really as ethnic flag.
• Frisian people: North Frisians and East Frisians in Germany do certainly not use this flag!
• Gagauz people: although this flag is frequently shown, no one until now could provide me with evidence if this flag is actually used and by whom?
• Germans of Northern Schleswig: never heard of this one, any evidence?
• Greek minority of Albania: From chart "Flags of Aspirant Peoples", not seen anywhere else
• Hungarian minority in Romania: this is not the ethnic flag (they use the Hungarian national flag) but the flag of the UDMR/RMDSZ party
• Ingrian Finns: almost gone as ethnic group in Russia, so the current use of the flag can be doubted

enough for now, to be continued--82.135.28.22 11:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that flags should be sourced just like statements in general. Just one note: I see no fault in having historical flags on this list. Maybe they should be noted as such, though. --Himasaram 13:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll try and change the format of this article, to allow for clarifications of the flags' sources. Hopefully that will stop passers-by from randomly removing data because of their personal points of view. --Himasaram 10:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not the Turkmen but Persian flag

The Flag which was (previously) labelled as the Flag of Turkmens of Iran was in fact a flag which was reportedly used by a local governor on the Persian Gulf. A reported flag of ethnic Persian in Iran is Green, white and yellow (sometimes depicted with a blue cresecent) which is indeed consistent with this flag. There was previously a text on it in the web site flags of the world. It needs indeed more referrence, but in any case that flag was never used by the Turkemns of Iran. Iranian ethnic groups never used ethnic flags, only political organizations used flags. But there might have been many ethnic/tribal flags in use in a bit older times and most probably were osbolete in the course of 19th or early 20th century. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.86.252.228 (talk) 23:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Do you have any sources that state this? Khoikhoi 00:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It was once on the website of the flags of the world. I am now searching for another online source. But in any case, the Turkmens of Iran have another flag. See in this Panturkis flag: The Fars (Persian) flag is different and the Iranian Turkmen flag is another one. http://millibayraq.blogspot.com/ there was another more reliable one but it is down now!

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Babakexorramdin (talk • contribs) 16:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

Also see this: http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/mehran0/Baydak.jpg identified as the flag of Iranian Turkmens

and

http://www.geocities.com/rooyintan/persia/persian_ethnic.gif

identified as the flag of Fars (Persian) people of Iran. See also the similarities in the colors. Babakexorramdin 23:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

see also

http://www.netlinkit.dk/FOTW/images/i/ir-pers.gif identified as ythe ethnic Persian flag of Iran (although there is a version in use with crescent and eight pointed stars on it, similar to the Azerbaijan and Al-Ahwaz Arab separatist movement)I have also seen a dark red flag with those symbols among the Iraqi Shia.

See also this http://www.netlinkit.dk/FOTW/images/i/ir_1876.gif This "Persian flag" is shown on a Japanese flag dated 1876. It was probably not the Persian national flag, but perhaps the flag of a local ruler in Persian Gulf. The flag is also shown in other old plates.

Jaume Ollé, 17 January 2000 (http://www.netlinkit.dk/FOTW/flags/ir-pers.html) Also note that the blue crescent is here!

Babakexorramdin 23:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scope

Flags of organizations (defacto/dejure), governments (defacto/dejure), provinces (defacto/dejure), or autonomous regions (defacto/dejure) should not be a part of this list IMHO. -- Cat ^chi? 20:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. The Kurdish flag, for example, though it's had some official use in Iraqi Kurdistan, obviously is meant to represent Kurds as a whole.--Pharos 20:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)