Talk:List of culinary herbs and spices

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Contents

[edit] Delineate herbs and spices

I think it would be helpful to define what the differences are, if any, between "herbs" and "spices", and indicate in the list which is which. - 152.76.0.130 02:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening

Surely the list of herbs at the beginning should either be removed, or expanded to include all the herbs appearing later in the article?

I tend to agree that teh first list shoulb be expanded and other lists removed, though there might be a case for listing twice according to common and botanical names quercus robur 11:09 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Template

Attention spice/herb lovers, I have created a template for all herb/spice pages here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Herbs and Spices. Please contribute if you are interested. The first stage is to brainstorm the content and headings of each article etc... Then the next step will be create a template using a known spice, like cloves, or cumin on a subpage. Then eventually convert all the pages to the new template format. Could take a few years. But eventually wikipedia.org might be the ultimate source for reliable information about spices and herbs. dave 21:51, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Split

It seems to me that this is really two articles and should be split into a "List of culinary herbs" and a "List of medicinal plants". There would be some overlap, but the current limits of the list are too nebulous in my opinion. Comments? WormRunner 06:50, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Definitely. I'm creating List of Herbs And Their Purported Uses. Family Guy Guy 17:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medicinal use

I don't think herbs and spices go well together theres so many spices that isn't herbs. and so many herbs that are used medicinally. Better to have three lists with links between "List of herbs", "List of spices" and "List of medicinal herbs". And maybe also a "List of culinary herbs" Spices is such a broad field with both non herb spices and a lot of different mixtures that the list will become unorganized with the herb list there also. Also most of the food herbs can be used medicinally even if they arn't always so "strong".

As I and my wife grow and sell herb plants I will probably contribute a lot to the herb list over time. I just found out about the wikipedia so I haven't had time to do mush yet. I did add some info to the lemon grass and mint. Sbyholm 13:30, Jan 22, 2004 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. The word 'herb' in it's broad sense is too inclusive to be addressed in this list, and should be addressed in the 'Herb' entry. When building this list, we must concern ourselves with narrow enough definitions to make the list functionable and useful. This is really a list of three types of items. 1) Medicinal herbs, as a topic entirely other than 2) Culinary Herbs and 3) Culinary Spices. The difference between spices and herbs is not an arbitrary one. Herbs, culinarily speaking, are the leaves of plants, and can be used fresh (though they are often dried). Spices are the twigs, stems, fruit of plants, and are ALWAYS used dried. This is an important distinction both culinarily and botanically.

It is clear that this list should be divided into appropriate thirds, though they should link to each other as reference points. This list needs to be consistent with the entries made for both herbs and spices. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split 2

I was browsing the new List of herbs and spices and though: why can't the list of spices be on the [spice] page and the list of herbs on the [herb] page, it would make the structure more logical i think. Comments?? Sbyholm 13:46, Jan 22, 2004 (UTC)

I agree with your idea. But my idea was to have herbs and spices on the same page. For example, cinnamon, basil, pepper, oregano are all very similar, they are all used to flavour food dishes...it seems like they should be listed together somewhere? How about no separate herb and spice page, but one page about spices AND herbs, and we can put the list there? Herb and spice could redirect there. I think this makes sense for now, since both articles are small. If they get big, they could be split off later. Any other ideas? dave 17:37, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I agree that "herbs and spices" naturally belong together. The division is unnatural and largely a result of historical trading patterns. However, also I think that while there is a great deal of overlap, a medicinal plant list is better kept separate from the culinary plant list. WormRunner 17:55, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The division is not at all unnatural, especially given culinarily usage, which is 2/3 of the purpose of this article. It is true that cinnamon, basil, pepper, and oregano are all similar. However it is also true that basil and oregano are more similar, as are cinnamon and black pepper. Former as herbs and latter as spices. There is a connection, but however the issue is resolved, we must remember that this article is supposed to make things more clear in our minds. Neglecting distinctions that form the basis of our language will not help our clarity.

[edit] Adding

I'm adding some more herbs and spices. I'm at K right now. I'll finish the rest later.


[edit] Some comments

Some comments:

  • Salt is not a spice, no more so than sugar. Salt is salt and really cannot be further categorized in a culinary sense.
  • Bay leaves are an herb, not a spice.
  • I would consider Rocket a salad green, not an herb.
  • Vanilla is a flavoring, not a spice, IMO; it is usually used as an extract, and with the intent of imparting a dominant flavor rather than a supportive one, making it similar to lemon rind, orange extract, almonds, coconut.

Thought I'd point these out here. I'll change the article in a few days if no one objects. UninvitedCompany 16:39, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I disagree about vanilla. If vanilla should go, so should cinnamon. Also, it is not generally used as an extract. You scrape the marrow out of the pod. - Burschik

Hmm, I hadn't noticed the comment by Uninvited Company until now. I disagree about all of these except Rocket, which could be excluded, though it wouldn't have to be. Just because bay leaf is a leaf, does not make it an herb. It's part of a tree and is generally considered a spice. Vanilla is just as much a spice as cinnamon, and for that matter lemon rind qualifies in my opinion. WormRunner | Talk 16:27, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, the definition of herb offered by Wikipedia seems to be "the green, leafy part of the plant", which would make bay leaves a herb and not a spice. Maybe we need a good definition of terms first. - Burschik


I agree. Salt and sugar do not belong at all. Bay leaves are indeed an herb (leaf) as opposed to a spice (stems, twigs, fruit). Rocket is a green, as per the wiki-definition of herb being a plant used for flavoring rather than substance. However, vanilla is indeed a spice, being the dried fruit of a plant. Just because it is sometimes used as a 'flavoring' does not change what it indeed is in itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] add latin names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fruits does a much better job of remembering to add latin names!

Maybe even have a table sorted by latin names.

Not everybody lives where you do.

[edit] List of culinary herbs and spices

I have changed this page to List of culinary herbs and spices. As it stood it didn't make sense. Herbs are a type of plant, so the list could have included medicinal herbs, or herbs that aren't used for anything. If there is a list that includes all herbs, it should not contain spices, as spices are purely culinary.JohnnyMrNinja 17:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Herbs de Provence?

In the header it says that curry powder does not count as a culinary herb or spice, since it is a mixture. Down in the list "Herbs de Provence", which is a mixture, is listed. Not wikipedia clued enough to know what to do about that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.32.130 (talk) 22:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, 'Herbes de Provence' should have it's on wiki-entry, but it does not belong on this list, as per the defining rules of the list, ie curry powder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.48.60.156 (talk) 18:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of mixed spices on the list. Garam Masala, Tandoori Masala, etc. I personally don't have a problem with those being on the list since it is a culinary list. As a user, I'd prefer mixtures on the list rather than all the medicinal herbs listed which are not used to specifically flavor the food. I think they should be purged, preferably with some kind of tea infusion.

[edit] Five Spice is a mix, Curry Powder was rejected on that basis

If curry Powder is to be excluded from this list because it is a mixture of spices, surely Chinese Five Spice should also.

[edit] Sichuan (Szechuan?) pepper listed three times

Is there an agreed-upon spelling for this region of China that can be applied to the name of the spice? --CorbettGM (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I removed the two redundant listings and kept the one in proper alphabetic position. I kept the spelling 'Sichuan' because that appears to be the Wikipedia preferred spelling for the name of the province in question. Not gonna touch the whole Sichuan-Szechwan-Szechuan debate over there. --CorbettGM (talk) 15:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)