Talk:List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

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Contents

[edit] To the anon who added the list of symphonies

Who probably doesn't read the talk-page, but in lieu of just reverting the list immediately--

  • Many of Mozart's works are covered in separate Wikipedia articles, for which there are links on this page.

Note there, the rule for placing a composition on this page: (it doesn't say that it has to be blue-linked and indeed many of the entries don't, but at least link them.) Schissel : bowl listen 12:54, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello! from "anon"

Does that mean the content was deleted because its entries weren't linked? Or because they repeated linked entries that were already present?

When you say "note there, the rule" - where is "there"?

Did my added content simply disappear, or was it moved to a more appropriate article that allowed some analysis of trends/style?

Thank you... (Posted by User talk:136.181.195.29)

Hi. I deleted the list. I deleted it because this article was already too long and the repeated link entries were already present. The commentary you added looked interesting at first blush, but it was unreferenced and also had a flavor of POV in it as well. The notes that were deleted were not moved anywhere yet, but are still available in the "history" for this article.
I do think it may be a good idea for someone to create a special Mozart Symphonies page along the lines of either Mozart Piano Concertos or List of symphonies by Joseph Haydn. The scope of this page (List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart) is too broad for any detailed commentary, but there are indeed a ton of symphonies and some overview of the Mozart's work in this field and the evolution of his symphonic style would be very interesting. The notes you had would make a decent start for a page, but it would need to be heavily cited with critical commentary (for example, see Mozart Piano Concertos). Also don't forget that notes particular to any of the specific symphonies could go on that symphony's page. DavidRF 14:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay. Maintaining standards for wikipedia is a good thing. If only other wikipedia sites were as-well maintained!!

[edit] Sinfonia Concertantes

They are listed under both the Concertos and the Sinfonia Concertante sections. They should be in only one.

What about the many sonatas for violin and piano? (edit: 62.101.234.41)

    • See the main page under Chamber music - brief description, no links yet to the two violin sonatas that so far have pages (one of which - for the A major K 526 - I started, so I'm interested to know too :) BTW it's more typical/standard/whathave to add comments, start new sections, at the end of a talk page, which is why I've moved yours there- otherwise it seems as though the people below us are responding to us. Schissel-nonLop! 04:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Piano Sonata 15

Why does Piano Sonata 15 (F maj) redirect to 16? 15 and 16 are the same? Surely not. The F Major I think is made up of K.533 and K.494, two movements and then a rondo. I'm not sure how this came to be though. But two sonatas redirecting to the same page is ridiculous --86.144.115.45 05:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why one page redirects to the other. I gather that sonata 16 is K. 570, the next-to-last of them, and sonata 15 would be K545, the facile, about which there is an article to which that should be pointing! I'll look into that soon- thanks. As to 533 and 494, though: the earlier work was later attached (by the composer) to the first two movements for publication, I believe, and a cadenza making use of a lower register added at that later date to the rondo as well, if I remember what Alfred Einstein wrote in Mozart: His Character, His Work. I'll get my copy of the book and a computer over in the same place sometime soon, I don't think opinion- or discoveries about watermarks, etc. - have changed, been made, ... - in the half-century since the book was written... Schissel-nonLop! 19:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
533 is Süßmayr's version of the Rondo (K. 494's 2nd movement). K. 494's 2nd movement is the Mozart fragment Süßmayr used to write 533. The sonata is then made up of K. 494's first movement (Mozart) and K. 533 (Süßmayr). -- brianfreud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.153.79 (talk) 09:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Check the date on the original comment. That was two years ago. At one point it looked like there was confusion as to how 533/494 affected the ordinal numbering scheme. One link used one ordinal numbering an other link used another. This caused two links to redirect to the same page. This has been fixed.
It is true that not everyone agrees with the ordinal numbering chosen here, that's another matter. At least its now consistent with itself. Many correctly point out that its the K-numbers that are most important here, that most don't refer to Mozart sonatas by their ordinal numbers. The Schubert sonatas have been renamed to use the D-numbers in the page titles instead of the ordinal numbers to avoid confused as to ordination schemes. That's a possibility here at some point, but I don't think its necessary yet. As long as the navigation template is at the bottom of each sonatas page, we should be fine here. I'd be more interested in seeing more of the sonatas get articles. DavidRF (talk) 17:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Sure, I was just clarifying the question, even if it was old. However,, if I may disagree with the comment below, where it suggests "simplifying" the ordinal numbering, and your point about disagreement with various ordinal numberings, fact is fact, opinion or simplification without purpose is another. AMA published the works and they wee numbered. Various groups have attempted to renumber ever since, but the only *official* numbers are the AMA; hence part of the reason the NMA specifically didn't renumber the works, even if the AMA numbers include some works not by Mozart and don't include all the works in any particular class. Renumbering to any other series than the original AMA numbers just induces confusion without a purpose, and is the job the various groups that have tried, but not the purpose of an encyclopedia. (Having seen, among other things, such things as 370b+371 referred to as "Horn Concerto #0" in attempts to sell more CDs...) :P -- brianfreud
The issue here seems to be K533/K494 and if its included in the ordinal numbering. Checking the NMA, they say it does: K533/K494 is #15 while K545 is #16. I don't know what the AMA says. Googling around, I see much disagreement, though. Many places refer to the famous K545 as #15. Personally, I think the only truly definitive number is the K-number. Ordinal numbers are just used here because they fit the standard wikipedia style of "Type of Work No. XX (Composer)". I don't mind leaving it as it is, it matches the NMA and navigation templates are at the bottom of each page for users (like me) who like the K-numbers. If this is too confusing, I'd jump all the way to a scheme like "Piano Sonata K. 545 (Mozart)", but I'd only do that if it was really necessary. DavidRF (talk) 02:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Just a nit... That's indicating work #15 within that volume, not "Sonata No. 15"... -- brianfreud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.153.79 (talk) 08:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
How about here: [1]. I don't know German, but they call K533/K494 "Nr. 15" here. DavidRF (talk) 15:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Operas

Hi. I have erased Ruggiero from the list of operas, it is an opera of Hasse, roughly at the same time of Ascanio in Alba.

Moreover, according to NEUE MOZART-AUSGABE, Betulia Liberata is an oratorio, not an opera. I have indicated it, but I think it should be removed from that section.

[edit] Merge from Musical works of Mozart

The article Musical works of Mozart has had a merge tag on it for a long time. The vast majority of the material there is a duplicate of that which is here. Having two almost identical articles strikes me as a very bad idea. Since I am not an expert in the subject, I have pasted below the material at Musical works of Mozart which is not in this article - everything else there is already here. Could someone with some knowledge merge it in to this article. I have then redirected the other one here. Kcordina Talk 10:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salzburg-era symphonies (1772-1781)

Not all of the following is included, but some is, the remainder may have been missed for a good reason

These symphonies are sometimes subcategorized as "Early" (1772-1773) and "Late" (1773-1775), and sometimes subcategorized as "Germanic" (with minuet) or "Italian" (without minuet). None of these were printed during Mozart's lifetime.

Although not counted as "symphonies" the three Divertimenti K136-138, in 3-movement Italian overture style, are sometimes indicated as "Salzburg Symphonies" too.

  • (1772) Symphony in G, No. 15 (K124) - German
  • (1772) Symphony in C, No. 16 (K128) - Italian
  • (1772) Symphony in G, No. 17 (K129) - Italian
  • (1772) Symphony in F, No. 18 (K130) - Italian
  • (1772) Symphony in E-flat, No. 19 (K132) - German
  • (1772) Symphony in D, No. 20 (K133) - German
  • (1772) Symphony in A, No. 21 (K134) - German
  • (1773) Symphony in C, No. 9 (K73) - German
  • (1773) Symphony in C, No. 22 (K162) - Italian
  • (1773) Symphony in D, No. 23 (K162b) - Italian
  • (1773) Symphony in B flat, No. 24 (K173dA) - Italian
  • (1773) Symphony in G minor, No. 25, "Little G minor" (K183)
  • (1773) Symphony in E flat, No. 26 (K161a) - Italian
  • (1773) Symphony in G Major, No. 27 (K199)
  • (1773) Serenade in D, "Andretter" (K185)
  • (1774) Symphony in C, No. 28 (K200)
  • (1774) Symphony in A, No. 29 (K201)
  • (1774) Symphony in D, No. 30 (K202)
  • (1774) Serenade in D, "Colloredo" (K203)
  • (1774) Symphony in D, No. 50 (K141a)
  • (1775) Serenade in D (K204)
  • (1775) Finale of a Symphony ("La finta giardiniera") (K121)

[edit] Opera

Much of the following material is included in a different form

Mozart, at Vienna, playing his Opera "Don Juan" for the first time
Mozart, at Vienna, playing his Opera "Don Juan" for the first time

In 1767 Mozart composed his first opera, if one may thus call the scholastic musical drama Apollo et Hyacinthus (K 38). With respect to that first attempt, Bastien et Bastienne (1768, K 50=46b) generates a definitely different result. The young musician is already able to dominate texts and his music emanates pastoral joy and spontaneous fascination. La finta semplice (1768, K 51) can be considered Mozart's first - only partially achieved - approach to the Opera buffa genre.

Then, the first Italian operas were composed, upon assignments received in Milan and Salzburg: Mitridate re del Ponto (1770, K 87), Ascanio in Alba (1771, K 111), Il sogno di Scipione (1772, K 126), Lucio Silla (1772, K 135). In all of these works, Mozart still shows some awkwardness while moving in the traditional Opera seria frame. The librettos are often dramatically weak and improbable. Nevertheless, one can find in these works some unambiguously Mozartian distinguishing marks, though the weight, substance and formal perfection of the older Mozart are still lacking.

With La finta giardiniera (1774–75, K 196), Mozart comes back to the opera buffa, outranging all previous models of that genre. The libretto is still weak, but characters are not schematic anymore and become real individuals, with music definitely contributing to their definition.

Le Nozze di Figaro, the first of the three great operatic works, all belonging to the opera buffa genre (though the Don Giovanni obviously involves tragic elements), that Mozart composed with libretto by Lorenzo da Ponte, was preceded by some unfinished fragments (Zaide (1779, K344), L'oca del Cairo (1783, K422)), and by the music drama Il rè pastore (1775, K208) and the comedy Der Schauspieldirektor (1786, K486).

Le Nozze di Figaro (1786, K492), was taken from the comedy Le mariage de Figaro by Pierre Beaumarchais, a work that was hardly accepted - and performed - in France, due to its denunciation contents against the flaws of the higher dominating classes (Clergy and Aristocracy), opposed to the healthy activism of the Third Estate. In Austria, too, Mozart's opera met the opposition of the imperial court, though it should be said that Da Ponte had purged the most shocking aspects from the original text. Actually, the opera was executed during the Spring of 1786 at the Vienna Burgtheater, with enormous success.

The trilogy of Da Ponte librettos continued with Don Giovanni (1787, K527) and Così fan tutte (1789, K588), both dealing - but in highly different ways - with the subject of love between men and women.

In his mature years, Mozart composed two important works belonging to the opera seria genre: Idomeneo re di Creta (1780, K366), and La clemenza di Tito, (1791, K621).

After many years from his debut in the German music drama (Singspiel), Mozart came back to this genre with Die Entführung aus dem Serail (1782, K384) and, finally, with Die Zauberflöte (1791, K620). Die Zauberflöte has been criticized for the absurdities of its libretto (by Emanuel Schikaneder), that was probably rehandled several times. It also achieved scarce success at its first performance. Nevertheless its music proposes elements of great brightness and spirituality, with the composition of sacred and profane love in unique delight.

[edit] Thankies

I was doing a report on Mozart, and this helped alot! :D Keep it up! I also like the way you can edit each page... (I added Mozart's birth date and death date on the page) ~ĶųŘıξ

[edit] Number of Mozart Pieces

Does anyone know roughly how many compositions were written by Mozart?

Depends on your definition of "composition" - any he wrote? Surviving ones? Compositions that survive completely, or do you include fragments and/or sketches? How about variant versions of works? Then throw in the works that are considered doubtful, but not enough to be considered spurious. Then do you count movements as compositions, or only the concerto/symphony/etc that contains those movements - and what if those movements were also performed as separate works by Mozart, not just as entire works? Then there's the overtures to opera that become standalone symphonies when you add additional movement x to them, etc.

[edit] Works for four hand piano and two pianos

Seems like the works for four-hand piano and for two pianos are missing. I do not find the works in the KV list either. Can anyone add these works?

If added, the title of the section "Works for solo piano" should be changed to Piano Works or added in a separate section.

Done. If objections exist, revert. ALTON .ıl

[edit] Too much duplicate commentary

If we have a link to a work, should we also have commentary on this page? Makes sense to put the commentary on the work's page. This page should be more of a list with commentary only before groups of works. The late symphonies and opera sections could both be cleaned up quite a bit. DavidRF 04:59, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed -Asmeurer 02:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Violin Sonatas

I fixed the links to the Violin Sonata list that was just added here so that it pointed to two articles that were pre-existing. Both of those articles have odd titles: "Sonata in A for Violin and Keyboard (1787)" and "Sonata in C for Keyboard and Violin (Mozart)". It would match other naming conventions if the titles of those articles either had the "index" number or the K-number instead of the key and the year. The "index" number is normal preferred (see symphonies and concertos) but it has problems with the violin sonatas for two reasons. First, there are gaps in the sequence which is confusing. Second, there tends to be a distinction between the very low K-number works of his childhood and the later works (note the huge gap in K-number)... many "complete" collections of violin sonatas start with K 296. Anyhow, if someone can come to an agreement on the appropriate titles for these pages, that would be great. DavidRF 15:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Violin sonatas

There are those who argue that Mozart's early works for violin and harpsichord are not considered as Violin Sonatas because the violin in the these works is subordinate to the harpsichord. Compositionally, the "true" violin sonatas start at K. 296. However, I agree with those who count the early works as Violin Sonatas based on a general understanding that, in the classical era, a sonata is music for an instrument accompanied by either a harpsichord or a fortepiano, except for the harpsichord or fortepiano that is played alone in a sonata. Also, for the benefit of the general users of Wikipedia, who do not really understand these compositional technicalities, simplifying the List of Violin Sonatas by Mozart by counting K.6 as Violin Sonata No. 1 may be a good idea. Truenorth2002 23:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure "Violin Sonata No. 1 (Mozart)" is not very descriptive, but its simple. If it turns out that pages for these get written then a navigational template with K-numbers and keys can be made (like the ones for Beethoven piano sonatas and string quartets). DavidRF 04:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horn Concertos

It is stated that the Rondo from Horn Concerto No. 3(K447) "is perhaps the most famous movement from all four horn concertos". It is my opinion that the Rondo in the 4th concerto (K495), is more famous. The Rondo from No. 3 is, however, included in a "The Best of Mozart" album from 1997. Cewlac 21:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

My Greatest Hits of Mozart CD only includes from his horn concertos the first movement of his first horn concerto in D. Famousness could be determined by the number of Googlesearch results for each concerto. Asmeurer (talk • contribs) 23:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Greatest hits CD's are notorious for either being misinformed, picking the wrong movement from a great work or just picking a work because it had a length that would fit on the CD nicely. One of the horn concerto finales (I think #3) is famous for sounding like the finale to K482 (piano concerto #22). When the horn concertos get their own page (or pages), then that type of commentary should disappear.DavidRF 13:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I created one page for the four horn concertos. They could be split up later if there is more demand. Commentary from the list page should be moved to that page. DavidRF 17:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piano Trios, Oboe Quartet and Horn Quintet

I noticed the following pieces are missing from the chamber music section:
Piano Trio in B flat, K. 254
Piano Trio in G, K. 496
Piano Trio in B flat, K. 502
Piano Trio in E, K. 542
Piano Trio in C, K. 548
Piano Trio in G, K. 564
Oboe Quartet in F, K. 370
Horn Quintet In E Flat, K. 407

Sonezy 08:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. DavidRF 18:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Media

Rather than having all of the music clips at the bottom of the page, I think they should be appropriately placed next to the relevant composition. Any other thoughts? Reywas92Talk 16:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

This page is already so long. I'd vote for only having media clips of pieces that do not already have articles. Media clips for pieces with an article should go only in that article to save space. Can there be a category in the commons for collecting all Mozart clips so they don't need to all be listed here? DavidRF (talk) 16:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikimedia Commons has media related to:
There is: commons:Category:Compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart or its presentation as a Template which you should see there ->.
Its presentation if of course rather unappealing, and there is no guarantee that all relevant media are actually properly categorised (I just added a bit over 20 such items to that category – there are probably more). Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)