Talk:List of cities in Ukraine

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[edit] organizing list of UA cities articles

I suggeste to move this to List of cities in Ukraine by polutation and at this location to have a dab between List of cities in Ukraine by Oblast and List of cities in Ukraine by population. Objections? Other suggestions? --Irpen 07:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

No. I don't see significant benefit of this proposal. It only brings a small complication, as one additional click is always required. (Actually, I don't like also how you did it with Dynamo and Dynamo (clubs). I don’t think there was a need to introduce Dynamo (clubs). We can just list all Dynamo clubs on the Dynamo page. The page is not large, and is not expected to be large. And the number of Dynamo/Dinamo clubs is also reasonably limited. Now in order to get to FC Dynamo Kiev I have to previously visit two pages instead of one).
Also, consistency is good. List of cities should actually include a list of cities. And this is what we have for the other countries. For example, List of towns in France, List of cities in Italy, List of cities in Russia
Also, this way of presenting the list of cities matches the one on Ukrainian wiki. There are 3 lists there: by population, by oblast, and by alphabet. The main one is by population, which includes links to the other two. Uapatriot 18:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

As for Dynamo, I am not sure I understand you. Please bring it up at that's article talk. The article sitting at "Dinamo" entry was just a list of clubs and my goal was to free this name Dinamo for a sports society article. Therefore, I moved the club list.

As for this one, either way is OK with me. If we have three lists, the other two should be prominently displayed, I think, at the top of this article, rather than at "See also". But again, this is just a suggestion. Please say at talk:Dynamo how exactly you want to do this or leave a message at my talk. Thanks, --Irpen 18:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

If you think that at the top is better then let's go for it. Actually, for most countries that I have seen (for an unknown to me reason) it's done by "See also". We may also do it both ways, at the top and "See also" (if it's acceptable by wiki policies).

When I tried to list Stebliv, it was objected because it is a town, not a city. Should we then have a separate list of towns and yet a separate list of villages (there are many notable villages as well)? --Irpen 08:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Irpen: It's true that Stebliv is not a city (misto), but a town/townlet (selysche mis'ko typu). Given that the List of cities in Ukraine is already quite large (as of today it should consist of 457 cities) I don't think it make sense to create even bigger "List of cities, towns, and villiages in Ukraine".
I had in mind that towns/townlets would go into the "List of towns in Ukraine", or into the "List of towns in XXX Oblast, Ukraine" for each Oblast. As of today in Ukraine there are 885 towns/townlets (selysche mis'ko typu) [1]. But probably only a few of them need an article.
Also, please note from the link that in Oblast only about 30% of raion centers (district centers) are of Oblast subordinance (misto oblastnogo znachennya). Thus, if a city is a raion center, and is of Oblast subordinance, then both of these things should probably be mentioned. Example: Kazatin (btw, it should be Kozyatyn) is the center of Kozyatyn Raion and a city of Oblast subordinance (of Vinnytsia Oblast). However, Bar, Ukraine is the center of Bar Raion in the same oblast, but it was not given the Oblast subordinace status. I was not aware of such details too. Take care. Anonymous, 04:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, guys, somebody done a great job here! But I think the table is little ambiguous:
  • There must be a note (in the column heading, or footnote) that the second column directs to Ukr. WP. Otherwise those links read confusingly.
  • The "Subdivision" column should be "Unit of subdivision" (linking to the same place as now).
Also, if some of the listed cities are subordinated to raions or municipalities, the "Subdivision" column may be made more specicific. AlexPU 18:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Did I tell you that I (as the founder of this page :)) dislike the ideas of:
  • turning x-ska oblast into x- Oblast?
  • creating a MASSIVE ambiguity regarding Ukraine's cities-towns-villages? :(( AlexPU 18:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Finally, it's nice to see see the founder. :) Sure, a note on the links to Ukr wiki would be useful. "Subdivision" is just shorter than "Unit of subdivision" with about the same meaning. For most of the cities the name of raion to which they are subordinate is the same as the name of the city itself. The additional column with raion name would not hurt But it would not give much additional info either. 1/3 of cities are subordinate to oblast, and 2/3 are subordinate to raion. But even the first group are usually centers of raion. So, actually, raion name can be given for (almost) all cities, but again raion name is the same as city name, so the benefit is tiny.
I was not the one who turned x-ska into x- oblast, but probably for an average English reader it would be easier to get that Sumy is located in Sumy Oblast. I like it this way, actually, but I may be too americanized already. :)
Right now there is no ambiguity on cities-towns-villages. Look, city=misto, town=selysche miskogo typu, village=selo. It's so easy. For Russian cities they are trying to match city and town as gorod, with no clear rule on which one is city and which one is town. Then, selysche miskogo typu they first translated as townlet, and now it's urban-type settlement. And who knows what it'll be tommorow. For Ukraine it's so straightforward: selysche miskogo typu=town, nice and easy word "town" :) no need for anything else.
Nice to meet you, KPbIC 09:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

I don't understand German, so I'm having trouble understanding why different cicites (such as Perehinske / Перегінське) are listed on de:Liste der Städte in der Ukraine (the German version of this page). Could someone please explain? Thanks! — Reinyday, 04:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what they are doing there.. I only spend time on the English/Ukrainian Wikipedias. Probably, someone just added it for a reason they had had.. —dima/talk/ 05:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Perehinske is not a city; it is a town. And this list includes only cities.--Ahonc (Talk) 19:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dzyhivka

I would like to add Dzyhivka to this list of cities, but I don't know how to do it. Please help. Thanks. USchick (talk) 05:03, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Done! BTW It's better to ask questions at the bottom of a talk page, otherwise it might go unnoticed Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please explain the difference between a city and a village or town? Cities listed on this page have a population of less than 2,500 people, while Dzyhivka has a population of over 4,000. Does it not qualify? Why did it get deleted? USchick (talk) 04:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

In Ukraine, the status of each settlement is designated by a special law provision. Names are translated from Ukrainian as city, Urban-type settlement (a term that bears Soviet administrative division legacy), village. (You can learn more at Administrative divisions of Ukraine). The status of Dzyhivka is село (village), according to the this village's entry at the Ukrainian Parliament portal. --Irpen 05:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I should have known there would be a reason tied up in bureaucracy! Thank you for that very thorough explanation :) USchick (talk) 01:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)