Talk:List of churches in Greater Manchester

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This article was nominated for deletion on 1 December 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

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WikiProject Greater Manchester      (Rated List-Class) North West England Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greater Manchester , a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Greater Manchester-related articles. In so doing it works and collaborates with its mother project WikiProject UK Geography . If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. Please also feel free to join in the discussions on the project's talk page. List This article has been rated as List-Class on the assessment scale. (Add assessment comments) Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance within the Greater Manchester WikiProject. WikiProject Christianity      (Rated List-Class) Christianity Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines. List This page is a list and does not require a rating on the quality scale. NA This page is not an article and does not require a rating on the importance scale. Architecture WikiProject (Rated List-Class) Architecture Portal This article covers subjects of relevance to Architecture. To participate, visit the WikiProject Architecture for more information. The current monthly improvement drive is Johannes Itten. List This article has been rated as List-Class on the assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the assessment scale.

If one reads Wikipedia:Lists, one sees that the guidelines state that the article should contain a LEAD just like any other article. I am sure that if one could be written, it would help the current AfD be defeated. I'm afraid I don't know much about the hsitory of Greater Manchester in this area, and so hope someone else could make a stab at it. Just a thought. (Also, should it be saved in someone's talk space somewhere so it can be re-written in an improved form just in case it is deleted.)  DDStretch  (talk) 23:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree that this article should be deleted. It seems to me that it would be very useful for someone researching their family history, who doesn't live in the area, to find possible churches for baptismal records. The list doesn't appear to be complete and so I will be adding some more as soon entries as I get time. I agree that there should be some more sections such as a lead and a history section. There is a similar article List of churches in London which has these sections although it is woefully short of references and is full of POV statements. However, there has been no nomination for deletion of the London article. Richerman 14:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I certainly agree that it should not be deleted, but it has been nominated for deletion. You could make your viewpoint known on the discussion page for the deletion (the details of how to do that is on the deletion notice on the main article page.)  DDStretch  (talk) 14:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Date of foundation 2 Handy database 3 Some possibly useful information on how to improve this article 4 Page Formatting 5 Additions and Deletions-please report errors here 5.1 Stockport, Heaton Moor and Chapel 5.2 Stockport, Heaton Mersey and Norris

[edit] Date of foundation

I've fallen at the first fence in trying to verify the date of foundation of a church. Is it the date the church was opened, the date the church was consecrated, or something else? In the case of St Ann's in Stretford it was apparently opened in 1863, but not consecrated until 1867. Yours, puzzled. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been using whatever date I can get. Personally I'd go with the opened date. In encyclopaedic terms "opened" is more tangible than "consecrated". --WebHamster 22:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Handy database

I don't know if anyone's come across the Eden.co.uk Christian resources website but they have a rather good Churches database, here's the Manchester page. It makes listing the churches somewhat easier. Each church has its own entry with address, website and denomination etc --WebHamster 23:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been writing articles on churches in Brighton and Hove, and as well as individual articles I plan to bring everything together on a list-style article like this one. I have used the website "A Church Near You" extensively for background details. This is the Greater Manchester "search" page. This might also be useful for Anglican churches — I found the equivalent site, the Diocese of Chichester homepage, invaluable for B&H churches. The format of my proposed article can be seen on one of my user subpages here (ignore misleading name!). Hassocks5489 (talk) 13:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some possibly useful information on how to improve this article

Given the the AfD was withdrawn, as were all of them nominated by the same editor with much ill-will expressed towards mainly me, I thought it would be an idea to see what that editor would find acceptable. This diff shows the change in the Churches in Omaha article (which used to be List of Churches in Omaha until he made the changes and changed the name) from when he was in favour of it being deleted, to when he changed his vote to Keep after editing it himself. It seems that an extended introduction would be acceptable, but that then does away with the "List of..." characteristic of it. Anyway, I thought it might help you to see what he would find acceptable to see if it would improve this article at all. I know about Greater Manchester in terms of religion only in as much as it used to be part of the Diocese of Chester, and can supply a date and citation for its formation if required.  DDStretch  (talk) 23:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

This is outside my field really, but a few thoughts. "A steeple house does not make a church" Quaker saying. Is this a list of bricks and mortar, faith communities, legal events when a building was commissioned?

At what date is the denomination registered. St Jeremiahs might have been commissioned in 1790, built in 1795, as an Anglican church, became Anglo Catholic in 1890, but was made redundant in in 1973, and sold to the Church of the Sacred Pineapple in 1992, and sold on to become a Gurdwara in 2005. Each of these being notable in there own right? ( My solution would be to put it all in with dates and refs).

In the Stockport context- what should one do about the Stockport Sunday School which I visited in 1967- I can´t remember where it was- but it was one of the biggest in the UK?

ClemRutter (talk) 10:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

As regards the Stockport Sunday School I did actually deliberately leave it off the list when I was compiling it as I wasn't sure if it actually comes under the definition of "Church". If someone adds it I certainly wouldn't remove it though. Its absence is due to my ignorance of these matters as opposed to reticence. --WebHamster 11:23, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm pleased that this article was kept; it is a valuable resource and also a good guide to which churches have their own articles (I've written a couple recently and added one that was "missing"). But I'm a bit confused about the last two columns. When is a church "completed"? Is it when the last major addition was made, the last major restoration, or things like when a toilet was added or the tower base converted into a children's chapel? (Do we need this column anyway?) And what is the "Ref" column for; the church's website, the best source of info, or, as I wrongly thought, where you got the info about a completion date? A don't think I am the only editor who needs this advice, judging by the variety of refs already present. Any guidance? Peter I. Vardy (talk) 15:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page Formatting

There is a severe formating problem under Firefox, as the image thumbnails are overlaying the table. Not surprising when you consider that a image thumb is 300 px and the table was hard formatted to occupy 645 px. This could have been formatted as pc- but there is a fair but of love and attention needed to effect this edit. ClemRutter (talk) 14:23, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

It depends on what size window you have in Firefox. I don't get any overlap until I close the window down to an extremely small one. Up to that point the images scroll off the screen and you have to use the scrollbar to see them. Although the column sizes are hard-coded that is only for their maximum size. If you reduce the window size you will notice that the column width decreases until there's no word wrap available. The minimum window size needed before overlap occurs is 800px. The current average screen resolution that people use (on desktop computers) is 1024x768, but most people use their browser in a window rather than full screen so 800px isn't overly large/small. What resolution screen do you use?

But it is a problem that will have to be addressed and there is only one realistic way to do it, which is to reduce the width of the images. This can easily be done in one fell swoop. In fact I'll do it know so folks can see how it looks. If it's not liked it can always be reverted. --WebHamster 14:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally the image thumbs were 180px by default, not 300px. Even so I've reduced them down to 150px to gain some more screen area. I'm running on a 1600x1200 display and they are easily seen on my monitor so it shouldn't be problematic. In any case they are only meant to be a quick reference and people can click on the image if they want to see the extra detail. --WebHamster 15:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. No problems from my Internet Explorer point of view. -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Firefox is happy- both on Linux and XP.ClemRutter (talk) 18:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Additions and Deletions-please report errors here

[edit] Stockport, Heaton Moor and Chapel

I have added photos- of St Pauls, and the URC. I believe that the Methodist sold to the Copts, as that is not there. Childhood Memories of the The Meths and the Congos suggest the the URC might have been a Congregationalist church.

[edit] Stockport, Heaton Mersey and Norris

There is a St Johns, Heaton Mersey ( photo added) and I believe an All Saints Heaton Norris. ClemRutter (talk) 15:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)