Talk:List of characters in Holby City

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This list article is within the scope of WikiProject Holby, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Casualty, Holby City and HolbyBlue on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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What's with the colours? Dan100 (Talk) 13:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

They signify series † DBD 18:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Would be useful to add some notes to the article indicating meaning. Keith D 10:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Removal of information

I see no reason why pertinent information is being constantly removed from this article. The characters' full names, job histories, and the wards they work on are all valid inclusions, and rather than simply deleting them at will, it would be useful to have an explanation and justification for doing so. Frickative 23:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The charactersn full names and the wards they work would be better if they were on the characters own page, and the wards that characters work on is constantly changing anyway now. Calcon18 13:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Frick, it's extremely annoying. Calcon – by that reasoning, episode writers, directors, airdates, etc. should not appear on episode lists? And actually, I reckon we do a good enough job keeping it up to date. Or at least Frick and I do, when we're not being obstructed! † DBD 14:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Im not sayin that, i just mean that on the main page really, there only should be the characters name, who he/she is played by and maybe what there role is, the rest can go on the characters own page. Calcon18 18:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes, and about the use of templates transcluded from user space

I've replaced the "spoiler" tags for departing and returning characters with {{future television|type=info}}, which I believe to be more suitable for this purpose.

I notice that there are a lot of transclusions of pages from user space. I'd like to move those to template space where they belong, but first I'd like to discuss this. Why is userspace being used in this way? --Tony Sidaway 18:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Characters departing and returning

Generally: Would it be possible for people who add to this list please cite their references.

Riatsila 07:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Why has Dan Clifford been cited as 'returning'? There is no proof that he is returning to the show in 10x25. Christian1985 18:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.147.229 (talk)

I wouldn't have listed him as 'Returning' myself seeing as it's only a one off appearance, but he certainly will be in the episode. See the BBC Holby homepage for confirmation. Frickative (talk) 18:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

You are right. I apologise it is just there are wind-up merchants who keep listing people as returning on these lists with no proof. Apologies anyway Christian1985 18:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.147.229 (talk)

[edit] Proposed layout change

I think that the cast list should be changed to look less cluttered. The area given for each cast member is huge and looks too big on the page. I propose that the cast list be changed to a small and much tidy arrangement, such as that seen in the Coronation Street cast list here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_from_Coronation_Street

What do others think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.3.248 (talk) 14:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Is this [1] what you have in mind? Agreed it does reduce the size of the article by almost half, but equally I think I'm still inclined to prefer the layout of the page as it stands currently. Frickative (talk) 03:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Frickative

This is what I mean, yes. I think the current layout works, it's just a little large since Holby City now has a larger cast and a huge former cast, perhaps it's time to look at an alternative way of presenting this information in a more compact and easier to read way.

I also think the colour code bars at the side are redundant - the broadcast numbers (1x01 etc) and year are listed for each character.

Well, I'm perfectly happy to accept that my attachment to the page as stands is largely on an aesthetic level, and that WP:ILIKEIT is far from a valid reason to want to keep it as is :) So I'm happy to go with consensus on this one, and if change is what's wanted, then that's fine by me. Frickative (talk) 12:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Sure, we can change the layout. I'd rather it stay as-is – again, for æsthetic reasons. However, if consensus supports a change, then it can be done very easily indeed – because the page uses templates, we need only change the templates once each! But then that would also affect other pages (one moment whilst I look it up). † DBD 12:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok, just realised the templates aren't used on the page any more. † DBD 12:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Holby City website

Just a heads up that the BBC have rejigged the Holby City homepage, meaning a lot of external and reference links in character articles now need updating to point to the correct page. Although there's a lot of new trivial content, the character biographies have been stripped down to bare bones, so some quotes are no longer supported by the content of the new pages. I think there should be a fairly easy way to update the links using AWB, which I'll have a play with later, but I just wanted to mention it here in case anyone came across any problems. Frickative (talk) 12:58, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New layout suggestion

I think the page is in need of something new. I've created a little table below (note that I have added an extra column for the Ward and also something new - "family". Take a look and please give your opinions - positive or negative. If there are extra bits you think could go in, or bits that are not needed, please feel free to edit the table and move things around.

I have used the colour to reflect those used in the opening titles.

Holby City characters ordered by arrival date
CHARACTER PORTRAYED BY ROLE WARD DURATION FAMILY
Ric Griffin Hugh Quarshie Consultant General Surgeon Keller 4x01-9x04, 9x22- (2001-2006, 2007-) Lola Griffin
Donna Jackson Jaye Jacobs Staff Nurse Keller 6x24- (2004-) No current family
Connie Beauchamp Amanda Mealing Consultant Cardiothoracic Surgeon Darwin 6x35-10x04, 10x11- (2004-2007, 2007-) Grace Beauchamp

[edit] Characters on Hiatus

What does this mean? Is it that they're leaving for a while and coming back, or only taking a minor role in the programme for a while? steveking89 23:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The first one. The last time we used it on this page it was when Amanda Mealing had the summer off and Connie went to Hamburg, and with Chrissie at the moment, it's because Tina Hobley's off on maternity leave, so Chrissie will be off screen for a few months. Frickative (talk) 23:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The restyling

What's with the restyling? The table before looked better and gave a bit more information on it concerning the periods of time that they (the characters) have been in it, as well as their full names and the shorter names they're called (i.e. Constance "Connie" Beauchamp). steveking89 23:32, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I changed it back to the old style, hope no one minds :) i don't really wanna start an editing war :S . steveking89 20:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, sorry, I meant to reply before but evidently forgot! Apologies. Anyway, although in the past (as evidenced, I think, by this talkpage!) I've been quite opposed to changing the layout of the table, lately I've been wondering if maybe there is too much info in there. I think things like the characters full names as opposed to known names, and exact durations (especially in the case of Abra and his ridiculous yo-yoing!) might better be contained in the articles themselves, with this one providing just a summary. However, I have actually been looking at the Featured list criteria and wondering how that might apply to this page. I honestly don't know if it's something we could aim towards here, because the only current featured lists of characters I can find are List of Metal Gear Solid characters and List of characters in Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. Obviously both are significantly different to this article in its current form, and aiming for Featured status would likely mean doing away with the table format entirely. I'm not saying 'we should definitely do this!' or anything, because I'm still pondering myself, but its something to think about, at least :) Frickative (talk) 22:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
So my attempt at this style:

Kobina Eric ‘Ric’ Griffin
 Ric (played by Hugh Quarshie) is the Ghanaian Head of General Surgery and a Consultant Surgeon on Keller Ward and is the second longest surviving characters on the show (having joined in 2001, although taking a break out from part of 2006 and coming back in 2007). He is an assertive doctor who fights for his patients and for what he believes medicine is about. Ric has been married five times (twice to fellow Holby doctor Lola Griffin) and has eight children and two grandchildren, both of whom died.


This sort of thing? steveking89 23:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


Yup, along those lines :D I don't know if you put it in blockquotes just to make it stand out from the talkpage, but I think based on other Featured lists, it'd be best as just straight text in the article itself. Looking at the example articles above, it almost seems as though, in the cases of the better developed articles we have, it'd simply be a matter of summarising their lede sections really, which ought to make things quite simple. My stab at it:

Percival "Abra" Durant

Main article: Abra Durant

Percival "Abra" Durant (portrayed by actor Adrian Edmondson[1]) arrived in July 2005, in the episode "Tuesday's Child".[2] While the role was created for Edmondson as a one-off guest-appearance, he has since reprised the role of Abra six times, stating that he has loved the show since its 1999 conception.[3] Abra's initial role in the show was that of Third World rights champion and humorous surgical maverick, whose major storylines centered around serious rule breaking, and his relationship with colleague Kyla Tyson. Upon returning to the show in April 2008, the character took a darker turn, resorting to self harm as a symptom of post-traumatic stress, following a harrowing experience in the war torn Congo.

Is it worth putting in a little picture of the characters next to their paragraphs, even though the only images we really have of them to add are those on their individual character pages? steveking89 15:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The article is looking great, now! I keep meaning to comb through and add in a couple more citations for unreferenced statements, but it really is looking fantastic. I was thinking perhaps once we've finished tweaking bits here and there, we should put it up for Peer Review? On the image issue I'd say that I think it'd probably do the article more harm than good - from what I understand, one of the clauses of uploading Fair Use images stipulates minimal use. I've seen Fair Use images tagged for deletion if there's more than four or five on one page, so I definitely don't think 20-odd would fly. Which is why I made the composite image of all the headshots at the top, so we've got everyone in there, without needing a tonne of separate images. Darn Holby for apparently not doing a proper group photo this series, apart from the silly one of them all huddled in the snow at Christmas *g* Frickative (talk) 15:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I never realised you'd made that image yourself, I thought you nicked it from somewhere else (it looks good). I think the Peer Review sounds like a good idea, although I couldn't concentrate long enough to read how the process works; sounds good though! :D steveking89 16:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The new layout

I have to say I really do not like this new layout. It's hard to see when a character arrived or departed. Episode numbers have disappeared and the page general looks cluttered and a mess. The previous table was by far the best way to represent this information. It was clean, simple and tidy. I recommend going back to that as this new layout just doesn't cut the mustard in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.70.50 (talk) 23:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Surely an experienced Wikipedia editor such as yourself can understand that this new type of listing meets the Featured list criteria standards? The best thing that we could probably do is wait until it goes under Peer Review and see what feedback we get from that?
steveking89 00:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Gah, every time I try and reply to this, my browser crashes before I hit save. Let's try for third time lucky... Although the previous style of the page might have been more 'clean', 'simple' and 'tidy', it was also, unfortunately, inherently in-universe and unreferenced. It's all very well and good knowing that Chrissie was once Clinical Matron, and Abra returned briefly on June 16th and 17th 2006, but this is all information that can be better expressed in the individual character articles. What we should be aiming for is an article of the sort this one is becoming, with encyclopedic content dealing with out of universe information and asserting the characters' real world notability. Things like Jaye Jacobs raunchy photoshoot shenanigans having caused the BBC to blanket ban its female stars posing for lad's mags are far more notable from a Wiki POV than the fact that Donna sometimes works on Keller and sometimes on AAU.
(As an aside, while I've got the talk page open, I'm about to go through the article and drop in a handful of [citation needed] tags where additional referencing is required. I know where most all the references needed can be found, but I'm just going to stick the [citation needed]'s in as placeholders to make sure I don't miss any as I work through :)) Frickative (talk) 11:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's all well and good mentioning the issue about Jaye Jacobs, but the section for "Donna Jackson" is more about the actress than the character! What we need is the previous table with character name, artist, role, duration. Anything else can go on the characters' own page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.87.51 (talk) 22:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This article needs to meet the Featured list criteria. The before table did not, this version does though. We can't just go aginst wikipedia standards because a few people prefer a different version. And as for the Donna Jackson article, if you think it's lacking more on the character; then add it as that page is meant for the character history, this page is not. steveking89 22:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
i've just reread that and it seems a little confrontational, sorry, it wasn't meant to be :D . steveking89 01:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intra-Wikipedia references

Do the references really count if they link up to another page within Wikipedia? Should they not be to external sites? steveking89 12:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Which ones do you mean? The episode ones? The cite episode template page says the episode link should link to the Wiki page for the individual episodes, or the relevant episode list if individual articles don't exist. It says they should only link to an external URL if no Wiki page at all is in existance. But in this case, what we're really citing is the episode itself as a primary source, so it's the episode that would be used for verifiability, rather than an external source, if that makes sense? Of course, if that's not when you meant, then disregard all of the above :p Frickative (talk) 12:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Ooooooh, I didn't know that, thanks :D steveking89 13:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)